Raising Wildlings
Raising Wildlings
From Science to Business: A Nature Play Adventure with Courtney Sullivan of WildPlay Co
Courtney Sullivan, the founder of Wild Play Co., joins us to share her journey from academia to entrepreneurship. Inspired by her background in exercise science and concern over youth's sedentary lifestyles, she embarked on creating a nature play business, WildPlay Co, in Bendigo, Victoria.
We chat about:
- Launching a business while parenting young children and the unique challenges it brings
- The flexibility entrepreneurship offers as a parent
- The importance of connecting with like-minded individuals who share her passion for outdoor education and environmental conservation
- Managing permits and zoning hurdles
- Crafting authentic marketing messages and the power of storytelling in marketing.
- The importance of a diverse and dedicated team in their success
- How the Wild Business course bolstered her confidence to ask questions and seek guidance through the unpredictable path of entrepreneurship.
- And we celebrated Wild Play Co. first year, and hear all about Courtney's exciting plans for the future.
Join us for an episode filled with inspiration, practical advice, and the keys to navigating the entrepreneurial landscape with resilience and adaptability.
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Today we're chatting to Courtney Sullivan, wild Business course participant and owner of Wild Play Co in Bendigo, victoria, about the ups and downs of leaving academia and starting her own nature play business, and she's just celebrated her first year in business. We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we record today the Kabi Kabi and Gubbi Gubbi people. We recognise their continued connection to the land and waters of this beautiful place. We recognise Aboriginal people as the original custodians of this land and acknowledge that they have never ceded sovereignty. We respect all Gubbi Gubbi elders, ancestors and emerging elders and all First Nations people listening today.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about parenting, alternative education, stepping into the wilderness, however that looks, with your family.
Speaker 1:Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly inspire us to answer your parenting and education questions. We'll also be sharing stories from some incredible families that took the leap and are taking the road less travelled.
Speaker 2:We're your hosts. Vicky and Nikki from Wildlings Forest School, Pop in your headphones, settle in and join us on this next adventure.
Speaker 1:Good morning. I'm so excited to have you with us today, courtney, you have been one of those businesses that I've just loved to follow, because you're a go-getter and you're a problem solver, so thank you for coming on and sharing your story with Wild Play Co. How are you today?
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm great, Nikki, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:It is. I feel like a mother hen when I'm watching through the Facebook group and on the cause platform as well. But I'm just just know. I'm always sitting here behind my screen just rooting for you all, and I can also almost tell who's going to have their business up and running in a year. You know, within that year, two years, and I knew you would.
Speaker 3:Is it because I asked so many questions in the Facebook group? Yeah, sorry about that.
Speaker 1:No, but that's what I'm like right, she's going to get it done. Because that's how I can tell. Because you're in there and you're asking the questions, you're not afraid to ask questions, you're confident in the fact that you're allowed to ask questions and that the support group will hold you in it as well, and I love it. And I hope everybody knows in that group that when you're asking questions you're answering them for everybody, because everybody goes back through those pages and some people are a bit shy. So when I see people asking questions I'm like yes, thank you, because people are thinking it and they're just too shy to ask.
Speaker 3:So yeah, oh, of course and I think that's underestimated just the value of that Facebook group and also the one-on-one chats with you and Vicky that we get as part of the World Business Course. I so the one-on-one chats with you and Vicky that we get as part of the World Business Course. I was always in those calls because I loved them and I just thought it was honestly one of the best things about the course just being able to ask people who've been through that exact journey those questions and get answers in such a short space of time. That's, yeah, that's basically what helped me get up and running so quickly.
Speaker 1:So, thank you for offering. Oh, my pleasure. I think I love about those groups too that they're always small. You know we've got a big group in the course but we only probably get half a dozen. So you do get a good amount of airtime to ask any particular question, and I love it Honestly. If I could do that five days a week, I would do that. So hit me with your questions.
Speaker 3:I've got a list after our call Good good, I love it.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I should be some kind of ideator, problem solver with the nature of nature, play business and that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that sounds like a title. You could get up off the ground. I think you could make that work.
Speaker 1:Look great in a business card sounds like a title you could get up off the ground. I think you could make that work. Look great in a business card. So take us right back to the start. Courtney, where were you before you started Wild Play Co? What made you take the leap? Because I think that's the biggest decision. Once you've made the decision, things are just problems to be solved, but the biggest decision, I think, is taking the leap. And then I would just love to hear you tell us all about your journey the good, the bad, the ugly, because I'm sure it's all there oh, it certainly is, because no one's journey is ever smooth.
Speaker 3:But um, look we. So before um owning or founding the nature play business, my background actually wasn't in early childhood at all, which I think is a little bit unique, like I know. A lot of people come to this because it is just a natural flow from being in that early childhood space and wanting to work more with kids outdoors and in unstructured play without a curriculum. But I actually didn't come from that space, so my background's in academia and it's in exercise science, interestingly enough. So I guess in that respect I always had the perspective of being very acutely aware of sedentary behaviour, because some of our research is in that space, and particularly sedentary behaviour in young people. So definitely, you know, that led itself really into into this nature place space. But, um, but that wasn't the, that wasn't the driving force. What actually happened was I've been in academia for a while and we were on holiday, with holidays with friends um up in in New South Wales and I've got four really close girlfriends who have families. Now we've got seven boys between us. That's all the children and they're all boys, which is ridiculous, but they're all the similar ages and we head away with our families every year and we have an absolute ball. But as you know, there's quite a few nature play businesses in New South Wales and in Queensland and it's just much less common in Victoria for a number of reasons. But when we were up there one of my girlfriends had been, her little boy had been going along to a bush kinder and he'd been loving it and we were talking about it and it just piqued my interest and I don't know if it was just because my kids were at a similar age where they would really enjoy something like that, but it just became really clear to me. I was like, oh my God, I have to find that, something like that in my area, you know, because my kids would just thrive in that environment.
Speaker 3:So I came home and you know I'm I very much love deep diving into things and so I did all the research and I'm like, right, I've got to find something like this in my area. And you know, there was just, there was just nothing. There was certainly things in Melbourne, but we're in central Victoria, we're two hours from Melbourne, so that's not achievable. And Bendigo is a really outdoorsy community and there's a lot of mountain biking. Here we've got beautiful box ironbark forest around us and but despite that, there was no nature immersion programs here at the time.
Speaker 3:So I went on a deep dive into well, is this even possible to create a business like this? You know, and you know what do you need to scaffold the business, what do you need from an insurance perspective? And you know, I did all this research and, of course, doing that in Google brought me to Wildlings Forest School. Of course. Doing that in Google brought me to Wildlings Forest School, of course, and you know, I saw at that point a solution to my problem. And then, you know, it became discussions with my husband around. You know, is this something that we're interested in? And of course, we live on land too. So that was.
Speaker 3:The other thing is that I just saw all these stars align, nikki, like I just saw. You know, I need these programs for my kids. Bendigo, as a community, needs these programs and we've got land where we can actually have a permanent setup. So that's where these few things came together. And then the wild business course. And, yeah, I think, within a couple of weeks of being away on holidays with my friends, we committed to the course and then I just devoured it, like in a few weeks, just, absolutely just. You know, every night kids are in bed and just devoured the course. That's not the only way, of course, but I think I was just so keen on getting things up and running and I was so interested, and that's just how I operate, I think.
Speaker 1:I just yeah same.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I get stuck. I get it so badly yeah, like, and even today, now, like you know, further a year down the road in the business, there's things that you know I've got planned for Wildplay Co moving forward, and you know I'm thinking a year in advance, two years in advance, and it's just the way that I operate.
Speaker 3:But yeah so we just got stuck in. We got stuck in, we did the market research and all the different steps of the World Business Plan and within, so I think I joined. It would have been mid-2022. Yeah, and we launched our very first program a year later, so it was the winter months term. What does that take us into? Term two of?
Speaker 3:or term three. Sorry, Term three of 2023 was our very first term in operation, so it was a year in the background and that was a year like. That was pretty full on like in terms of Solid year.
Speaker 1:You know, you've got it.
Speaker 3:It's a solid year because you've got you're learning all the things about setting up a business to start with. And then we had the you know extra, I guess the extra obstacle of then setting up the permanent site, which it didn't need too much but in the end probably needed more than we thought. And then you've got things like parking and logistical things and insurance can take time and um, but yeah, everything came together and you're never ready to launch, of course you know like you could be having a baby around with it oh you're never ready.
Speaker 3:You're not ready um, but you, but you launch and you work out a couple of things on the go. As long as you know safety's in place, you know everything else can kind of follow. So yeah, and here we are, a year down the road.
Speaker 1:I can't believe how quickly that year has gone. You know, from the outside looking in obviously it seems so quickly but seems so quick. Tell me about in that year because you know, originally when we started our business we said this is a year long course. You'll get it done in a year and you can pretty much if you dedicate your entire life to it and and everything plays by the book. You know which it doesn't like. You said, insurance now is taking around on average six weeks and if you want to start your own business on your own property, if you have to deal with any council or shires, it can take, as you know and I'll get you to talk about that in a minute a lot longer than that too to get those approvals through. But we've since obviously extended that and it's a lifetime course now because we just realised people have lives, they have babies, they move house, they have deaths in the family and I was just talking to Courtney beforehand. I don't think there's anyone in the course that doesn't have children.
Speaker 1:So everyone starting their business is generally starting with toddlers around their ankles, and that is not the easiest time to start, and also I think a great time to start. Yeah, I look back now and go I don't know how I did it and at the same time now I've got two in the house somewhere entertaining themselves. Business is running itself and it's so easy. Now I think my only advice would be, if you could do it, you know, two to three years before you got pregnant, that would be my recommendation.
Speaker 3:So, true. But you don't get these ideas and you don't get that kind of momentum and that drive. Sometimes, there's something about little kids at your ankles that just really gives you that creative drive to go. No, I want to do this. I want to do this now you know, and having the kids.
Speaker 3:And that's right, you know, and you build something around yourself that you need for your family and it gives you the flexibility to do that and I think that was one of the most appealing things about the course. And Riv was my oldest, was he's six now, but he would have been four at the time and Bowie was probably only one.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean in many ways you know there's always pros and cons to the ages that you do things, but that you know Riv was at the perfect age for Bushkindi, so that was just so lovely to be able to transition him into that program and now Bowie's, you know, almost at that age where he's coming into Bushkindy and Riv's in the homeschool group and it's, yeah, it just it works and it's, you know, it's what we needed for our kids and it's what Bendigo community needed as well, and I can see that Like that's one of the most beautiful things is.
Speaker 3:I can just I didn't realise. One of the most lovely things that I've seen is just the community that you develop, because you don't realise how many people out there are just like you. They just want the same things for their kids. You know, I always thought that it was second nature to us to raise our children outside, and you know having a go at lots of different things and you know conserving and protecting the environment it's always been a big focus for us. But there's so many other people out there who have that same want for their children and they want to be able to bring them to a program that celebrates all those things. So if you're in doubt of if there's people in your community, of course do your market research, but I assure you that there's other people out there just like you.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%, it's. Yeah, I feel all of those things and again, I think people don't even know that they're looking for it until they stumble across you, often as well, and then they go oh, it's almost not relief, but it's oh. There's more people like us out there that get it and want to help the planet and want to be outside.
Speaker 1:And you know, maybe our children seem a little bit wild, but it's, they're not wild. They just need to run and be allowed to run and play and use their outdoor voice. And when they do those things they're not wild at all.
Speaker 1:They're beautiful, beautiful, happy children absolutely absolutely so tell me about some of the hardest things you came across in that first startup year, because it is a year, there's a lot there and you're an academic, so I know academia is not easy. What did you find different from moving across from academia to owning your own business, cause there's red tape in both and there's stakeholders in both that you know you have to kind of abide by and do the right thing by. What did you find that was different and harder and how did your problem solve those things?
Speaker 3:Okay, so I would say that I mean, you know, time is definitely the first thing is, you know, being able to, you know, put the time aside, and often it's when the kids go to bed. You know time is definitely the first thing is, you know, being able to, you know, put the time aside, and often it's when the kids go to bed you know, that's when you sit down and do your admins.
Speaker 3:That was when I devoured the course and I tended to go through the course in a way that I would do what I could achieve from that module as I went. There were some things that of course are on the background, like your insurance is something that you can organise later. But if there was something for example the branding that I could get done at that time, then I'd jump in and do what I could so that I had those kind of little snippets of the business set up along the way. The policies and procedures because I haven't come from an early childhood background was very new to me, so I think that I probably took a little bit longer than most to wrap my head around that process. And then from there I would say that then the site setup became one of our biggest challenges in just being able to logistically organise things like parking and signage and being able to get up to the site and you know how that would kind of how we would store our resources. So things like that all become issues when you've got your own permanent site. But nothing that we couldn't problem solve, but just things that were a little bit of a challenge. We were lucky.
Speaker 3:You mentioned before, nikki, about permits and so forth. So it depends. Obviously it's different in every state, but it does depend on the zoning of your property. I know we've got another friend who comes up through with me, roz, who's in Ballarat, who's got a beautiful program down there Half Nature Play and Roz had some issues because of her zoning and, you know, had to jump through lots of hoops. We are rural, what are we out here? Rural living zone out here in Sedgwick, in Bendigo. So for that reason we didn't require any permits. We're limited to the number of staff we can have working and we're limited with signage or the size of our signage.
Speaker 3:But in terms of being able to set up on the property. We didn't have any limitations, thankfully, so I got all that in writing, which is very important. You do have to do your due diligence and I've got all that in writing, but we were lucky from that perspective that we didn't have to jump through too many hoops with council, but it's very state dependent unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're one of the I think less than three in the whole course, but saying that, probably less than probably only half a dozen, maybe a few more have actually tried to do it on their own property, but it is. It's totally zoning. If you're rural, residential or what did you call yours? Rural living, generally you're okay.
Speaker 3:Rural living zone.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah if you're just rural, some councils are no, and if you're residential, it's pretty much an absolute no without it.
Speaker 3:Well, not an absolute no, but there's a whole lot of development approvals or you know you need to and even wherever you are, you need to have toileting, parking, traffic control Absolutely, and so, yeah, we're lucky that we don't have any of that. But there's, and then there's costs associated with applying to council for different applications and so forth, and when you're already you know you're already, you're out money for you know you've done the course and you've done your resources and your insurance, which you're paying monthly because you haven't got enough to pay the annual fee yet, and all these things.
Speaker 3:And then to add on to that, the possibility of having to apply for permits. It can make it, you know, unaffordable. So but now we also run from different locations around Bendigo and that's all public land and you know that's got its own challenges with needing to apply for permits to use that as well. So we've kind of, you know we've had experience in both and both beautiful in their own way, but they, you know, it's never smooth sailing in any way that you choose.
Speaker 1:Tell me about your first term or two. You expanded really quickly. You had a really great, uh, really great start, and I, from that from again observing, from looking in I would put that down to your marketing and the fact that you, a bendigo, was untapped absolutely so many places, though, so I don't think it's purely that it was untapped. I think your marketing. You do a spectacular job of it. You're very great at getting your face in front of the camera, which a lot of people don't do. Your branding is beautiful. I think you do a really great job of it, and I really want to plug that, because I want people to know how important it is. The old saying you know you might have the best tasting muffins in the world, but if nobody knows that you're selling the best tasting muffins in the world, people aren't going to come. So kudos to you for getting straight in there and just doing that. Tell us about your expansion, though. How did you go doing that?
Speaker 3:Thank you, I appreciate those kind words and yeah, look, I think I knew once I did the Well Business course. I just knew how important the marketing and promotional aspect of this business was going to be, particularly in bendigo, as you mentioned, we there's no other nature immersion services, so we really had to, um, I guess, build trust and authenticity within our community that this is a service that is here for you and this is what we do and this is how we're different to you know, other things that are in the area, um, so social media for us was and still is, you know, 95 or 98 of our, of our marketing, because that's where people live these days and that's where our our ideal customers, which are, you know, busy I say parents, but it's predominantly mums um that that's, that's where they are.
Speaker 3:They pop the kids to bed and they, you know, have a quick check of their Instagram and we all do it, you know, and that's how we connect a lot these days. So I knew that that was where I needed to focus a lot of our marketing. We did have some flyers out. We've done quite a few any of the local you know festivals and events and so forth. We put our name out there with council and said we're happy to come along and of course you're out of pocket for those days and it also takes time out of a weekend and you've got to go and set up and pack up and you don't get any money from it.
Speaker 3:But the marketing that you get from that and just the exposure is absolutely priceless. So you've got to be prepared to put yourself out there a little bit absolutely priceless. So you've got to be prepared to put yourself out there a little bit. I'm an introvert at heart but I'm also quite social and I'm really happy to small talk with anyone and chat and I find that I can relate to people really well. So that's been a real advantage in our programs and you know, I've made many friends through this process and I think that's all through just being open and being happy to be vulnerable and admitting. Sometimes on socials we admit our mistakes and our failures. The other day we tried to make some crayons.
Speaker 1:I saw that one that was great With leftover crayons like, yeah, oh, you know, and just absolute failure.
Speaker 3:But these things happen and we're all learning and that's okay. So I think that your audience really appreciates that. You know as much as you have a very professional website and a very, you know, robust and scaffolding of your business, but it's okay to still be learning at the same time. You know, I appreciate that, as someone in this space, I appreciate when other people say, oh, we got this wrong. Or you know I appreciate that as someone in in this space, I appreciate when other people say, oh, we got this wrong or you know where this we should have done it this way. And you know I'm okay with that. So I think that's been a really big, a really big part of it. But, yeah, social media branding so important, um, and we've certainly used that as our main form of of marketing and you know what? That's the biggest part of what we do now Like it's really, it's huge, and I'm trying to find ways to actually I know you guys would be too Nikki like just trying to find ways to not cut back but be more efficient in that process, because it can be a real time sucker and you know you don't want to be sat at a computer.
Speaker 3:You really, you know we made these businesses so that we could get out there and play outside and so our kids can be out there in nature and we want to really hold on to that as much as possible.
Speaker 3:But also, you've got to sell your programs and you've got to sell them every term because you know that's the cycle of this business, is that you've got to get out there and you know we're coming towards the middle of term three now and you know in the next few weeks we're going to be looking at marketing again for term four and of course you have quite a few repeat customers, which is fantastic, but also there's always going to be space for more. So it's ongoing and it's probably I underestimated it, I would say, nikki, at the start, as much as we put a lot of emphasis on marketing and promotion 100%, I agree underestimated how important that was going to be for the sale of our programs. And yeah, I'm realizing that now and it's a big, it's a big push for us. But that's okay, that's what's required in small business. We love it and that's what we need to do to get the word out there. So that's what we're doing.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the thing. I think it wouldn't matter what small business we were running. You know, the yellow pages are long gone and this is we don't really have a choice. It's, it's social media or nothing. So then it's a, how we deal with that and b, like you said, exactly how we market to get bottoms on seats every term, because you know the our favorite children are all leaving for big school, you know, at the end of the year as well, and and so we're trying to bring in that next cohort of families.
Speaker 1:It's so sad and so bittersweet and so beautiful to watch that, but it is hard. So I think my only advice there is I mean, you're doing an amazing job and just continuing what you're doing, but then we don't need new stuff all the time either. So, going back through your insights and just reposting what you've got every year, because that stuff deserves airtime. You know it's like an artist just because you've painted a painting, you don't just put it away once you've done it, it's you've gone to all the effort to create it, it's tracking well, audiences like it. So we should hang it again and again and again, because we know it resonates.
Speaker 3:It's so true. It's so true. We have the same messages, because we're not reinventing the wheel every term and every year. No, we have the same messages and you can. You can say the same message in many different ways yeah to your ideal customer and your ideal client.
Speaker 3:Um, and it's just about being a little bit creative in that space but you'll find your ideal client because if you are doing this for authentic reasons and you're genuine and you can get that across on camera whether it be with your face or whether it be with your messages then that's what's going to attract people to you and your business. Yeah, because that's think about it like that's how you find businesses. You know, if I can relate to someone and build a relationship with someone whether it be your massage therapist or your yoga teacher or you know, it doesn't matter who it is. If you can relate to someone and they've got the same values as you, you're going to want to reach out, you're going to want to work with them and you're going to want to bring your kids to their program. So that's the ethos that we, that we work with and I'm so happy to be on camera.
Speaker 3:I don't like not from a vanity perspective, I've got no interest, but I just feel when I'm on camera that I'm just talking to you know, just talking to someone. I'm talking to one person or two people, like I'm not talking to everyone. That's. That's the way that I kind of think about it and and I'm happy to do that and I think that people relate to they relate to that, they really want to see your face, they want to see who's behind the business, who's behind those messages, because that makes it feel more real for them and I think they're more likely to come along if they know, oh, absolutely, absolutely, that's a that's massive, you know so, and we've got quite a big team now.
Speaker 3:So I make sure that you know their faces are on our social and and videos of them interacting with the children so that people can see, oh, you know, that's, I know that person, or, or, that's great, I know that my child will be well looked after. Um, people need to be able to trust us and our programs, particularly for, you know, any programs that are drop-off, so, so important and, you know, easily done, really, you know, with your iPhone, these days a little bit of video.
Speaker 3:Like it's not hard. It takes time and forethought but it's not hard.
Speaker 1:No, and I think when you think about, as you know, as a mom and a parent, sitting in my bed at 10 o'clock at night scrolling so much of Instagram is business now and we're one of them, no doubt but so much of it is corporate and so much of it is product. So when I see Courtney's face pop in with your big, beautiful smile being so passionate and authentic, it does stand out and you're not doing anything corporate, you're just being yourself, really talking really openly about what you do and why you do it, but that hilariously like that. You know all these corporate people putting in all these, you know advertising executives and paying for all the subcontractors to do all these fancy corporate things, but it's such a washout now of corporates that your face stands out because you're a small business, you're passionate and you're authentic. So I would say that's your special source, is just you being you and being so passionate, and it stands out because that's unfortunately not the norm anymore. But I just love to see it.
Speaker 3:Oh, so true, oh, thank you, Thank you. Well, we try hard, we do, but that's what you've got to do to get you know, your face out there and your brand, brand exposure. And you just want to be able to let the community know what you offer, because if they don't know you're there, then they can't access your programs, you know. So it's all about, yeah, brand awareness, brand exposure and getting your face out there.
Speaker 1:I think all right, you've done your first year. Like party celebrations, all the things. What's next for Wild Play Co?
Speaker 3:oh, gosh okay. So, like I said, I'm always thinking in advance of what's happening down the road. We've got a couple of things. So for the rest of this year we're cruising on through to Term 4 and I love how our programs change with the seasons. You know, like we're about to come out of fire season. For us, fire restrictions come into play soon and then we start into our summer season and everything changes, which is beautiful. But next year we've got we're partnering with the Bendigo Sustainability pardon me group to run the Sustainability Festival, which is a massive festival that happens in Bendigo once a year annually. There's about 3,000 people, which for us is a lot, that come through the gates and we're going to. There's some really special things that we're going to be doing in that space. So that's really exciting in March next year. But for Wild Play Co specifically, look, we've got a lot of programs now.
Speaker 3:We run eight programs across four different locations and we're just trying to meet what our yeah, we're just trying to meet what our community needs, which is, you know, an ongoing process, constantly evolving. We've got the most beautiful staff. I was so worried about staff at the beginning. Nikki and I know I asked lots of questions in the group about how do you attract good staff, which was great.
Speaker 3:Getting your first yeah, getting your first really fantastic staff member is the hardest. And then from then on I swear it's word of mouth because that one person loves working in your business so much that they tell their friends, and that's just how it works. And now we've got people coming to us saying we want to work for you. You know which is such a beautiful thing to hear. So we've got beautiful staff and we're offering some professional development now to some of the early childhood centres in Bendigo, because the Victorian Bush Kinder Grants came out a little while ago and there's lots of kindies that are now putting in place their own bush kinder programs, which is fantastic, because the more kids outside in nature the better. So we have some professional development now that we're offering around some of those more riskier play activities that people sometimes find a little bit more challenging to deliver. So hand tools and fire striking and rope play, all those things. Yeah, so that's our plan for next year is just to meet the community with what it needs.
Speaker 3:We would love to bring something to Bendigo like what's happening up in Queensland, in Logan, at the moment. So the community, the Australian Institute of Play, the community backyards, which are fantastic Bendigo would be a brilliant spot for one of those, and I've spoken with a couple of people associated with that, and also the Vennie in Melbourne as well another program that's very similar. It's challenging. We need to, of course. Being a for-profit business, we need to team up with a not-for-profit organization and there are some fantastic ones in Bendigo yeah to be able to get funding. So there's some great organizations in Bendigo that are nature-based and that would love to bring something like this. It's just resource. You know resources.
Speaker 3:We're resource stretched and they are and being able to dedicate time to something. Obviously that's unpaid, but I know that our community would benefit from it, so I would certainly love to do something like that moving forward into 2025. But yeah, we'll see what happens. It's exciting, though, you know, like this is just a start for Wild Play Co. One year in, and we're building, so we love it.
Speaker 1:It just again. I just get so happy because it is so hard to build, it is so hard to get that first year, which is often not a year, it's often two, sometimes three depending on life circumstances and funding and jobs and whatnot but to see you expand in the first year so quickly and then to already be looking at building and, I think, also something we don't talk about a lot we do mention it in the course but making sure you diversify and I know everyone was probably that, probably we all got slapped in the face with that during COVID but it's really hard to just survive with just programs. You can do it, but you need to be running quite a few programs in different locations. But if you can add whether, like you're doing PD, whether you can add festivals, whether you can add you know we've done online courses, I know other people are doing printables and resources it's a good idea to make sure that you have a finger in a couple of different pies, because we don't know what the world's going to throw at us and we don't know what's going to change in the world of business as well.
Speaker 1:And making sure you're keeping on top of that, making sure you're keeping on top of social media, making sure you're keeping on top of, like you said, listening to your audience and knowing that, oh, you know there's a gap in the market over here or actually we've oversaturated this space. You know too many programs in the one week and that's not working out. It's really important to listen to that. That your families as well. But I just love that you're already doing it. In your first year You're already A expanding, b diversifying and C looking at growth. So huge kudos to you, courtney. It's so good to watch.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you, Nikki. Thank you. I think that, yeah, you're so right, diversifying is the key and maybe you don't have to start the wild business course going in with that mindset, but I think that it develops over the course. You know, and the number of programs that you run will be dictated largely by what your community needs and what you can actually deliver. And then, yeah, there's so much space to think about how else you can help your community.
Speaker 3:And even if you are, of course we're all kind of location-based. But if you do offer things such as online courses or printables, then you become marketable to, you know, a much wider community, and therefore that's where your social media marketing becomes important. But you're not just limited to the people that are in your area. So there's lots of different ways and I think you know just being able to build your course and then you've got that springboard to work from, and then you've got that base of your programs and you can then just, you know, flourish from there with whatever interests you and whatever your market says that they need. So just being open-minded to what that might be, because it might change and evolve over time.
Speaker 1:You know, with your business and that's okay.
Speaker 3:We're all learning and you know what an amazing way to grow a business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love, every year Vicky and I will get open our you know little, just a great big sheet of paper, and do our goals big, hairy. You know we call them big, audacious, hairy goals for the next year and it's so good looking back on them. You know we're like we were going to write a book and we look at that this year and went, god, I couldn't think of anything worse, absolutely not. You know, in the podcast. I remember the first or second year doing the podcast and thinking that was such a scary audacious goal. And now we're like, yeah, we only do it now when we feel like it, when we really get the call to really chat to someone.
Speaker 1:Now, and that's just been this year that we've had that. You know we're not doing it every week anymore. We've got other projects that are exciting. So I think that's the beauty of small business you haven't got somebody above you saying, oh, you need to go and do this project for us. It's what do I feel like doing? What challenge do I want to take on? What big, hairy, audacious goal do I want to set or what excites me? Me and just follow that. And I think for me that's the most exciting part about owning a business. What's your favourite part of moving over to owning your own business?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you're right. I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think it's having agency in how you decide to spend your time, like I've been lucky enough now Well, not lucky enough. I've built the business in a way that initially, of course, I run all the programs, but I've been able to attract beautiful staff and because we've run our programs now for a few terms, we've, you know, got the money behind us to be able to pay those beautiful staff and I'm comfortable enough now with them running quite a few of my programs. So I run the homeschool group on a Friday, which my oldest attends and we love, and then my other seven programs are run by our wonderful staff.
Speaker 3:So being able to step back and then focus on the business side of things and have space in my head for all of these big, hairy, audacious goals has been really, really amazing. And yeah, just having agency in how I spend my time, you know, and of course there's things, there's deadlines you've got to get done Logistically I'm the one that moves the trailers, so I'm not on the ground on the program, but you know, to get to different locations I've got to go and get the trailer, pick it up and take it somewhere, and you know there's nothing fun about that, but that's just what has to happen, you know, to have these programs running at all these different locations. So that's freed me up to be able to do that. But then that's just a small part of my day, and the other time I get to spend with my children you know, like we homeschool my oldest.
Speaker 3:Now he's just started his sixth and he gets to spend his days, you know, hanging out with with mum, doing lots of um, lots of fun things, and then coming to homeschool group on a friday, which is fantastic. So, um, that's been, yeah, that that's been the best thing by far being able to choose how I spend my time and building the business to a point where I can make it flexible.
Speaker 1:I've got one more question for you before we move over to our rapid fire questions. Oh, yes, one of the things we get. So we have everyone move through our, you know, through the first year, and then they start getting staff and then they start letting go and you know stepping back from the program yeah, how did you go letting go? How did you go of you know handing this baby the program? Yeah, how did you go letting go? How did you go of you know handing this baby that you spent so much time and money and passion and sleepless nights? How did you go handing that over?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the tips for people.
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, tips Tricky, okay. So yes, it was tricky. I started I handed over Nature Play first, of course, because that's the kind of the shorter program it's a little bit easier and there's no risky play elements involved and then I graduated to handing over bush kindy, which only happened this term. So I've run bush kindy up until this term. What has helped tremendously and I've already said this, but is your staff. So I have the utmost faith and I just know that our staff do the most beautiful job. Of course, for the first, I've worked with all of them in our programs, and so they've learnt from me and I've learnt from them, gosh.
Speaker 3:I've learnt from them because I'm no expert in this field. So we've learnt from each other and I think we've just all developed this flow and this rhythm and I know that they're across safety, I know that they're across respectful communication. I know that they work really well together. So of course Bushkindy runs with two staff and they actually have all known each other through different parts. Bendigo is about 120,000 people, but we're not super big. But of course a lot of them come from an early childhood background and they've all worked together before in Bushkindy and so forth and so forth.
Speaker 3:So I've just been able to attract the most beautiful people who just uphold the values of Wild Play Co so wonderfully. That made it much easier to let go Nicky, and we still go down and visit, I think, especially the bush kindy that's on our property, like we still go down. Sometimes I take the kids and you know, and we hang out and that really helps as well. But I just have faith in their ability to run the program, knowing that they've done it now for quite a while. We've all learned from each other and I just know that they can run it well and the feedback that I get you know like we get the most beautiful feedback that oh gosh, we've got you know so-and-so running it this year and we just love them.
Speaker 3:She's so lovely and she's kind and thoughtful and the way that she, you know, deals with the kids and it yeah, I think that really helps as well yeah, I remember my first session, um, when Lindsay, who's our Sunshine Coast manager.
Speaker 1:That was when I was like ready to transition and whatnot, and I was, oh you know, am I ready, are we ready? And on the Lindsay was sick which she's never sick and three separate children came up to me where's Lindsay? I went, okay, they're ready, like you know we're ready, it's so true, I get that on a.
Speaker 3:Friday at homeschool group. We've got one little girl she she's come from bush, kindy, she's now in homeschool group. And we've got one little girl she's come from Bush, kindy, she's now in homeschool group and she comes up and she walks straight past me and she walks up to Alicia, alicia. She says I'm like, what about me? So I mean and I think you're right, that's when you know you're like yeah, you've nailed it, these people are embedded in our program. These staff, they're gorgeous. They're just as much a part of Wild Play Co as I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, They've built their relationships and they've built themselves into the business themselves.
Speaker 3:I think yeah, yeah, and they care, yeah, and our company.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you're the same. They wouldn't be the same business without them. Like they are Wild Play Co, they are Wildlings Forest School.
Speaker 3:It's yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely, and that's you know. And it's hard to find that stuff. It's hard, but when you do, you just you hold on to them, you treat them well and you you make them as much a part of it as you can, because that's what gives back to your staff, that's how you make that little community and um and yeah, and you don't want to have to go out and employ more staff, you want to keep the beautiful people that you have. So you do your best.
Speaker 1:Actually, I think you just nailed that too. I think that autonomy and that trust, to say A, I trust you and the decisions you make, I will back and B that autonomy to plan the program how they want to do it, because it's so. What we do is so not just place-based but people-based, that you know, if we transplanted each other's programs in each other's areas with different people, they wouldn't work. You know they might work but they would be disjointed. So to hand that over and be Alicia, you know, this is your baby, or Lindsay, this is your baby, I think that's that reciprocal trust that hopefully makes them want to stay.
Speaker 3:Oh it absolutely is, absolutely, because they all come with these different backgrounds, like we do have early childhood staff, but we've got staff that come from, you know, wildlife management and ecosystem backgrounds, which is just gorgeous. We've got a few of those staff. Alicia's one of them and the knowledge that she brings, but then also her ability to relate to these little people at the same time, you know, and they just love it, and I love that we have that diversity within our staff, because that's what makes our programs all individual and all different, even location-based, like our bush kindy at Sedgwick is different to our bush kindy at Kangaroo Flat, because one's a pack-in, pack-out, one's, you know, permanent on-site, but they're run by different staff and they both bring something beautiful. So you know, that's really lovely as well.
Speaker 1:Here's cheers to incredible staff.
Speaker 3:Oh, so true, so true.
Speaker 1:Are you ready for some rapid fire questions, Courtney.
Speaker 3:I am Hit me.
Speaker 1:All right. What's your favourite book of all time and why?
Speaker 3:or what are you currently reading? Okay, favourite book of all time is a tough one, so I'm going to go with what I'm currently reading. I do lots of academic research, so lots of academic research.
Speaker 1:So always reading, you know academic articles, um.
Speaker 3:So fiction is just. You know, I love it. I grew up with my mum reading and I. It is my escape. I love sitting in the sunshine with a cup of tea. Reading a book is heaven, um, and I look forward to doing that again one day when I get older.
Speaker 1:I'm back there. It's delightful.
Speaker 3:It's taken a while.
Speaker 1:I can't wait I can't wait.
Speaker 3:But look, I go through stages where I can, you know, dive deep into reading three or four books, but then I need a break. I go through stages like that, but at the moment I have been reading Taylor Jenkins' Read and I got. The very first one I read was Malibu Rising and it was just gorgeous and I'm a big sucker for a plot and I didn't think that I would enjoy that book as much as I did because it was actually based in America, in the USA. So I usually like to, I do really love reading books that are Australian based, but I loved Malibu Rising. And then, when we were on holidays, because I'd just finished that book, I'm like I'm going to stay.
Speaker 3:I love this author, I love the way she writes. I'm going to read something else of hers and I read Carrie Soto is Back, which was tennis-based, and I started it and I thought this is not for me. This is going to be about tennis and it was. It was like solely about this woman coming back from retirement playing tennis, but I just loved it. It must be the way that she writes. Taylor Jenkins Reid, anyway. So I finished that and it just reminded me. And now, whenever I think about that book. It reminds me of being on holidays. You know, when you read something when you're away on holidays and it just takes you back to that time it's. Whenever I think about that book, it reminds me of being on holidays. You know, when you read something when you're away on holidays, it just takes you back to that time. It's gorgeous, and I come back and I've just finished.
Speaker 1:Daisy Jones and the Six, which they've made into a little TV series as well, which I can't wait to watch.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh loved that. So that was like about a band and it was written. It was this really interesting plot of being like a biographical, you know journey about how the band started and ended. But it actually wasn't real. Daisy Jones and the Six is not a band at all. It was like loosely based on Fleetwood Mac, apparently.
Speaker 1:Oh right, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3:Anyway, the way it was written was just beautiful and I listened. I actually listened to that audio book. I don't really usually love audio books, but it was the perfect book to read as an audio book because it had these short snippets from all the different people of the band and oh, it was fantastic. So loved, loved, loved. Taylor Jenkins' read and she's got more that I'm going to dive into as well, but that's just yeah. That's where I've been in the past few months reading those books. That's great.
Speaker 1:I have not read any of her books, so they are now on my list. I've just started a book club back again with literally two friends Love, but it's me trying to get off my phone at 10 o'clock at night.
Speaker 1:We've just finished reading Overstory, which two of us had already read, but we thought, right, we'll just ease back into book club, which was I love Overstory. It's heavy and it's dark, but it's all about trees and so I just love it Beautiful. We're about to read Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver, which is all about the opioid crisis, apparently.
Speaker 3:Oh, that is deep. You like some heavy stuff?
Speaker 1:Highly recommended, but I haven't read it yet. Yes, yeah, so I'll let you know, because I can't do too much of that. I can usually do one heavy, and then I need two light.
Speaker 3:Same, same, same. I've got to be, and I've got to be conscious at what I don't know, like the time of year and like where my mental health is at. I've just got to be really conscious of where I'm at with, with what I'm reading, cause it can, it, can influence, can't it, a lot.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, I quite often. We've got a beautiful CWA down in town and they once a term have a book sale and I'll grab a bag of 20 books for 20 bucks and most of them are just light. They're my in between the heavy books and then I take them back next term and just donate the 20 back.
Speaker 3:Oh, fantastic, that's a great way. I love that idea.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's such a great little community initiative. I just it's hits my, hits me in all the great spots.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Next question when do you go, what do you do to reset after a tough day, especially with kids Children it's a bit harder to just, you know, dash off somewhere it is.
Speaker 3:So we've been having some lately, just some, beautiful afternoons. It's winter, but we've had kind of 19, 20 degrees, which for us in winter is really sunny. So in the afternoons we've just been heading outside and we've got a beautiful little outdoor lounge laying down, the kids running around on the grass, playing and having a cup of tea, taking our little afternoon platter outside, which is beautiful. I definitely don't get a lot of time away from the children and that's you know, it's a life stage. They're young and that's you know. That's kind of where we're at. But something else we love to do on the weekends to reset, is we've got a big dam, so we often just chuck a few things in the back of the ute and head down to the dam, and particularly in summer, and the kids will have a swim and we'll lay down on the picnic blanket and that's just our happy place. I just love being at home. I'm not a big person that loves to, you know we do. We do go out and you have to being, you know, a homeschooling family.
Speaker 3:You have to put yourself out there and we do do that, but, um, our favorite place is just being here we just love being at home and enjoying our land, and we live in a beautiful place. Bendigo is gorgeous and we love where we live it.
Speaker 1:It is. Half of my family are there, so I will come and visit you one day. When I go and visit them next time.
Speaker 3:Oh, always welcome. We'd love to have you.
Speaker 1:Can't wait to see your space. All right, if you could choose just one thing to change about the education system, what would it be? I would love to hear your thoughts, actually, about university. Oh yeah, do you know what I have to be? I would love to hear your thoughts actually about university.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, do you know what I have to be careful of? When I'm working much, because no, no, no, no, you're fine, I can totally speak about it on here. But when I'm at because I still work a fraction at the university and when I'm there I have to be a little bit careful about what I say, because you know largely. You know, being a homeschooling family too, you know we don't love the idea of curriculum and that's part of the reason why we've got our children not in school. So I think you know I became in the end quite disillusioned with teaching at a tertiary level because I could see the amount of theory and of course there are some practical classes you do at university. But there was so much theory that you know and knowledge that you're that you're assessing these. You know 18, 19 year olds on, and and I know that from when I was at uni that you know part of the reason that I was so successful at uni because I did quite well. But I had such a great memory that I can memorise so much stuff and I can spit it out on an exam, but being able to practically apply it is a whole new ballgame and that's, I guess, why I've become a bit disillusioned with teaching at a university level is that I just feel like we're feeding these kids so much information and knowledge and yet what they really need to do is be out there in the field, practicing on the job, practicing this kind of information.
Speaker 3:So, you know, if I could change anything about the education system, particularly for our young ones, it would be yeah, just to take away the pressure, the expectation. Yeah, just to take away the pressure, the expectation, the requirements to to meet you know all of these, these thresholds that they need to meet, and just you get back, to get back to being play-based. And I think you know, at a tertiary level it's certainly. If I could change anything, it would be to move more to you know what we do in a TAFE environment. You know, I think what TAFE offers is amazing, like, of course they still have, you know there's assessments and so forth, but it's so practical and we've got some staff now, as I said, who've come from that that wildlife management kind of course, and they are. They tell me about all the different camps they go on. I think it's probably similar to outdoor education, nikki, like the camps, and they're away for days doing this and they're assessing the water bugs and I'm like gosh that you know that just on the job.
Speaker 3:Learning is um. I think that's pivotal. I think that's where the that's where the beauty is. So I wish that university could be more, more like that, and I hope in the future that we do move to that and that the gold standard is not always, you know, being degree qualified, I don't think that. You know, I am myself, but I just I don't think that that should be the be all and end all, and I certainly won't be. You know, be actively encouraging my children to do that. I will certainly support them in whatever their decision is, but I just don't think the be all and end all needs to be university.
Speaker 1:But don't tell them I said that- Do you know how many of my friends who have done degrees say the same thing and the people it feels like the parents not always obviously, but a lot of parents that haven't done university degrees feel as if that's still the gold standard, and I think that's why you know, once you've been through it, you go oh, there's a lot of illusion, I think, about the prestige of universities and I think, having done both I've done TAFE and I've done university and actually you know, other than that, you know, yes, there is a level up, obviously between a Cert IV and a diploma and a bachelor degree and obviously with the research behind university, but it's all the same, it's all the same game. Really, it's just TAFE offers the more practical, you know, offerings and I think, gosh, when you look at the tradies making the money they're making and getting paid to go and do their trade.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it's true, it's true. And you come out of university and you still start at the bottom. You don't go into any, you know, generally speaking, depending on the degree that you do, and from then on you've got to build your own career. So it's you know, it's up to you. I guess you know what level of education that you want, but you know your career is what you make it and I don't think necessarily that university is going to be the difference between being successful or not, and of course success is very individually defined being successful or not and of course success is very individually defined. But, um, but yeah, I would certainly change. Change that about the, the education system.
Speaker 1:I love that. And last question where can we find out more about Wild Play, co. Courtney?
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, well, you need to go visit our website, wwwwildplaycocomau, and then visit our socials as well. So we are on Facebook at the Wild Play Co. And likewise with Instagram, also at the Wild Play Co. Yeah, that's where you can find us. Drop into our DMs, say hello. And yeah, we'd love to speak to anyone in the nature play business if I can be of help to anyone in their journey. We're only a year in, we're only new, but, um, my head's still in that space, so it's kind of nice to be able to help anyone that um is looking at starting out. I'd be only too happy to share um our journey and any tips and advice oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:That's so generous and so generous and I think that's I think that's the beauty of of this community as well is that everyone is so generous with their time and their advice and and you know those tips and tricks about, you know whether it's development applications or permits, or you know I'm in Bendigo as well. How did you go with the council? It's because sometimes it's so council specific as well. How did you go with the council? It's because sometimes it's so council specific as well. So thank you so much for that and thank you so much for joining us today and congratulations on your first year of business and your expansion and your new ideas for next year. Can't wait to come and visit you and, from the community of Bendigo, thank you for seeing the gap and building something that the community will enjoy, I know, for a very long time, and that they'll see the ripple effects of that for a very long time. So thank you, courtney.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you, Nikki. Thank you for everything that you and Vicky provide for our industry. It's been a pleasure to meet you guys and be mentored by you, and I'm so happy that we can continue to be, you know, in each other's lives through social media. And thank you.
Speaker 1:Our pleasure. Go forth and play.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Nikki.
Speaker 1:What a champion. I just love how authentic and passionate Courtney is. Her success in business really is down to just getting stuck in and her problem-solving attitude. She's not afraid to ask lots of questions. She spends a lot of time and effort on marketing. She really listens to the feedback she gets from her families that join her in the programs. She clearly hires great staff, but she also trusts them to be able to let them work autonomously and bring their own unique flavor and skillset and to become a part of the business themselves.
Speaker 1:I honestly really believe that anyone can start and run their own successful business, but only if they have that problem-solving attitude and that ability to take on feedback well, the ability to see mistakes, failures and rejections as just part of that learning and growth phase. If you don't have those couple of things, then starting a business can feel really hard. You know, if you take each rejection personally, if the low numbers one term makes you feel like a failure and you just close your business, then no, you're not going to stick it out. So you need to be able to take that as just feedback and then solve that problem. So if that's you and you're keen to start your own wild business, then head on over to our website and check out our free masterclass. All about those barriers that really stop people from even starting at raisingwildlingscomau and, until next week, stay wild.