"If nature is free and play is free... Then why would I need to pay $ to insure my Nature Play session? "
😱 - Us
Yes, that was our actual faces when we heard someone was running a Nature Play session WITHOUT insurance.
Not only does this kind of dodgy practice risk people's livelihoods and homes... it also has the potential to completely destroy a whole industry that is supposed to protect childhood and children's right to play in nature.
In this episode, Nicki Farrell & Vicci Oliver (co-founders of The Wildlings Forest School) talk about the elephant in the room when it comes to the potential consequences of neglecting insurance and why it will actually bring you freedom and peace once you have it all sorted.
Nicki & Vicci share their experience on:
💥Why not all insurance coverage is created equal
💥 The importance of aligning your insurance with the unique risks
💥The need to double-check that your insurer covers activities like working with unpredictable outdoor environments.
💥Cutting through the complexity and confusion surrounding insurance coverage
Tune in for this practical episode on the "Business Side" of nature play and how you can best protect your interests and those of the children in your care.
Other ways we can help you:
"If nature is free and play is free... Then why would I need to pay $ to insure my Nature Play session? "
😱 - Us
Yes, that was our actual faces when we heard someone was running a Nature Play session WITHOUT insurance.
Not only does this kind of dodgy practice risk people's livelihoods and homes... it also has the potential to completely destroy a whole industry that is supposed to protect childhood and children's right to play in nature.
In this episode, Nicki Farrell & Vicci Oliver (co-founders of The Wildlings Forest School) talk about the elephant in the room when it comes to the potential consequences of neglecting insurance and why it will actually bring you freedom and peace once you have it all sorted.
Nicki & Vicci share their experience on:
💥Why not all insurance coverage is created equal
💥 The importance of aligning your insurance with the unique risks
💥The need to double-check that your insurer covers activities like working with unpredictable outdoor environments.
💥Cutting through the complexity and confusion surrounding insurance coverage
Tune in for this practical episode on the "Business Side" of nature play and how you can best protect your interests and those of the children in your care.
Other ways we can help you:
If you can't afford insurance, then you can't afford to run a nature play business. Yet we're very black and white when it comes to insurance and we believe if you can't afford insurance then you can't afford to run a business. But it's really important to remember when we say yet we very loudly and clearly want to state that you should never run without insurance. Full stop. Nothing else to add here. But we do not advocate or endorse anyone running any kind of nature play business without insurance. And in this episode today we're going to share with you why.
Nicki Farrell:We like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we record today the Kabi, kabi and Gabi Gabi people. We recognise their continued connection to the land and waters of this beautiful place. We recognise Aboriginal people as the original custodians of this land and acknowledge that they have never ceded sovereignty. We respect all Gabi Gabi elders, ancestors and emerging elders, and all First Nations people listening today.
Vicci Oliver:Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about parenting, alternative education and stepping into the wilderness, however that looks with your family.
Nicki Farrell:Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly inspire us to answer your parenting and education questions. We'll also be sharing stories from some incredible families that took the leap and are taking the road less travelled.
Vicci Oliver:Wear your hosts Vicki and Nikki from Wildlings Forest School, hop in your headphones, settle in and join us on this next adventure.
Nicki Farrell:Hello and welcome to the Raising Wildlings podcast, where your host, nikki Farrell and Vicki Oliver.
Nicki Farrell:Right Insurance Talked us about it because we have genuinely had nature play businesses tell us that they're running without insurance because they you know, quote unquote can't afford it. This is horrifying, right. Just as an FYI, if you're attending an nature play group anywhere in the world, please make sure before you attend with your child, check that they're actually insured, because there are some people running without it. So, vicki, tell me I'm running an H play business. Why the hell do I even need insurance?
Vicci Oliver:Well, there are a number of reasons, but let's start right at the very top. Let's start with the word litigation. I'm going to be really blunt. You're naive if you think that it's unlikely to be sued in Australia, or anywhere in the world for that matter, I'm sure. Depending on which study you read, australia is actually ranked between second and the top 20 in the most litigious countries in the world, or spend per capita. So there's a chance, no matter how close you are to the families that are attending your programs, that you could get sued, and what this basically means is that you've done something within your program to say that you're negligent in some way. So In that case, you need to work out how to cover legal expenses, medical costs, settlements, all of those sorts of things. Now, as I say this in the same sentence, I don't know of any nature play businesses that have gone through a litigation process.
Nicki Farrell:Yet which is?
Vicci Oliver:probably the first.
Nicki Farrell:Absolutely, that's right, absolutely.
Vicci Oliver:I think it's important to realise that there's much more to this conversation as we go on through this podcast, to understand why. Because it's not just about the word litigation and going through a court process, because there are people behind this process.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, and I think going into that a little bit deeper is that if a participant does suffer any injury or illness, that the insurance is what provides coverage for all those medical expenses. But breaking those down I don't think we realise in Australia what that can consist of, because we're so lucky here with our free medical care. Yeah, but it's not just your hospital bills and doctor's fees, it's the related costs of rehabilitation. It might be occupational therapy tools like showering seats or modifying your house as well. So you need to make sure that when you, even when you are sued, that your insurance will cover your participants so that they can receive the necessary care for life.
Vicci Oliver:Yes, and I think that's really important and it's almost like I want to talk about this. First is that it's not about covering you. There's an ethical consideration here. It's about making sure that somehow for the families that are involved in whatever incident occurs whether you're negligent or not, because that's actually relevant that you can actually pay for the child or the participants medical bills and, like you said, like sometimes it's about adapted housing. It could be disability equipment or rest.
Vicci Oliver:Yeah, exactly. So there's ongoing care that needs to be considered, and I know that even the wealthiest families would be hard pressed to cover those expenses. And it's not only the expenses, it's the stress that comes along with the financial instability around managing someone who's been involved in an accident. So if we can ensure that we've got the correct insurance that's going to cover people in the worst case scenarios where terrible things happen, we can at least alleviate some of that burden.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, you were. You were getting insurance because it's the right thing to do for the families in your programs that like, stop worrying about covering your own ass. This is all about making the children in your care who often, especially when you're starting out often your friends and family, making sure that they're looked after for life, and not just the participant but, like you said, the family, because the whole reason we run nature play programs is to benefit and advocate for children. So if you're not insured, we don't actually truly believe that you're advocating for children.
Vicci Oliver:Absolutely. That just gave me goosebumps. I think that it is really, really important to remember that we're not saying that. You know, we advocate for risky play, adventurous play, developmentally appropriate adventure in nature, and that does come with the risk that something could that could happen.
Nicki Farrell:It happens in school, school ovals and in playgrounds in public parks. There's always a risk.
Vicci Oliver:And that's why everyone has insurance. That's why you go and get a permit to run on Council land, or if you run within a national park, or you run even a stall at a market. You need in public liability insurance because accidents happen, it doesn't matter what scenario, it doesn't matter what you're doing. But particularly because we are one working with children and we are working in nature, which is a very unpredictable environment, and we are encouraging children to take some developmentally appropriate risks, this is an absolute must.
Nicki Farrell:It's not.
Vicci Oliver:I wouldn't even conceive of running anything without it. No, never.
Nicki Farrell:It was something that was our biggest expense when we started and we both looked at each other and went can we really afford this? And we both went. If we, we've always said all along if we can't afford insurance, we will not run, ever, not a session.
Vicci Oliver:Can you afford not to, because if something happens, where's the payout coming from? If you?
Vicci Oliver:don't have insurance, whether you settle or you end up deemed negligent which I hope you wouldn't, because you would have all of the policies and procedures and you would be operating in the right way. But the payout needs to come from somewhere. If you're not insured, that means that you would have to liquidate your own assets, so that might be your own house or your car or whatever it is that you have. And if you don't have enough of those assets, you then declared bankrupt and then everybody loses. You've got nothing and the people that have been injured have nothing.
Nicki Farrell:And also you're letting your entire team down. They will no longer have jobs, that your whole company collapses and then your credit's affected for seven years here in Australia. So declaring bankruptcy isn't just like well, just go bankrupt, it's a big deal.
Vicci Oliver:And I would also have to say if you are negligent, then there is like a criminal charge that could be bought against you as well. So it is so, so, so important that it's not considered an additional optional extra. It's the very first thing you need to consider and ensure that you have in place, if you are running a business or if your program, even if you're in a centre or a school that you're ensuring that your coverage has been amended to ensure that it covers the types of activities that you're running.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, let's just talk about that really quickly. We're at a conference the other day and people come to us, which is amazing. They come to us and go oh, you know we're doing this, we're doing this as an amazing, oh, we'd love to do fire. What do we need to know? The first thing you need to do is make sure you know. Check with your insurer that they're willing to cover fire. Oh, we haven't done that for our other things. Oh, please do, because you are not covered with those activities. And look in a lot of schools and earlier settings you actually probably are covered, but you need to check. You need to know without a shadow of a doubt that you were covered, whether it's hand tools or leaving the gate, climbing a tree using, you know, woodling knives, just leaving the gate. Please make sure you're covered. I can't believe the amount of people that came to us and hadn't checked their insurers.
Vicci Oliver:And honestly, particularly if you are in a school or a centre, your insurance is easy. We don't and have not heard of many or any. So far that have been rejected or unable to operate under their insurance policy, because our schools in particular do all sorts of stuff, so of course it will be covered, and early childcare, same sort of thing. There's sometimes a few policy restrictions, like as in policy and procedure within centres themselves, but I don't think they're not dictated by insurance, which is a little bit different if you're running your own business.
Nicki Farrell:Yes.
Vicci Oliver:Which is what we found in the nature play industry which then brings me to another very, very important point is that if you are running a private business and you don't have insurance and something happens, not only are you ruining your own business, the person that's been injured, their families, your staff, you can actually ruin the entire nature play industry.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, please don't.
Vicci Oliver:Yeah, I really love my job.
Vicci Oliver:Yeah, I've been advocating for this for years and we advocate fiercely and we have been fighting to ensure that we do have adequate coverage for all of the things that we want to do and continue to have that conversation and that fight, because we're meant to be advocating for children's safety and nature, not risking it. We just have seen a couple of cowboys and cowgirls. Without it, that could bring down everything that everyone has been working so hard for and ruin the future of the nature play industry for children, and that's terrifying and gut wrenching, to be perfectly honest.
Nicki Farrell:And again, if you bring it back to what everybody's mission should be in a nature play business, which is getting more children outside, by not getting insurance, you're risking all those children not being able to get outside. Just get insurance.
Vicci Oliver:Just do it and of course, it gives you peace of mind, it makes sure as a business owner. It allows us to focus on providing quality outdoor experiences without worrying about the financial risks or unforeseen events, and we have and as much as writing all the policy and procedure going over and over and over risk assessments. It's one of those things that every time we do it and we said this before it makes us feel so much more comfortable with what we're doing.
Vicci Oliver:And it provides peace of mind to our staff to know that we have very clear procedures and an understanding of decision making around all sorts of things that we do. There's no ambiguity. We do find that there's something that's popped up that we haven't considered before. We talk about it together and we put it down on paper, and we have years and years of experience and not just Nikki and myself, but our entire team and we've had hundreds of team members come through our business and then also discussions alongside our colleagues within the industry as well, which have been so valuable in ensuring that we are very clearly operating in a way that has considered the safety of everyone involved In as many circumstances as we can, to the point that we can control.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, I had someone say to me actually on a couple of weekends ago I don't know how you do what you do. The responsibility is so overwhelming I couldn't sleep at night. And that's exactly how I can sleep at night is I know how much work we put into those policies and procedures and those risk assessments and every time we go over them, yeah, there's very minor tweaks. We're doing the absolute best we can in the environments that we have. That's all we can do. But I'm so proud of our paperwork, which I never thought that would be. Our job would be paperwork, but it is and we're very good at it and I'm very proud of it because that is how we keep children safe and that's the only way you get insurance, too, is to have really tight paperwork.
Nicki Farrell:So on that, we have coming up a free webinar that, if you would like to join, it all about what you need. So the next step from this podcast is what you need to get insurance. So here on the podcast we're saying this is why you need it, and then the next step is the things that you'll need before you can go and get insurance coverage. So if you're interested in joining us for that free webinar. Come and sign up to our mailing list, raisingwildlingscomau, and you'll be sent the direct link of where and when to join.
Vicci Oliver:In short, after all, that get insurance Super important and we wouldn't run without it, Of course, reach out. If you need extra help in understanding that process, Join us for that webinar. As always, we love doing this journey with you, so until next time stay wild.