Do you ever wonder what it takes to start a business while wrestling with the complexities of parenting young children?
Join us as we delve deep into the journey of Gill Howarth, the founder of Born Wise Education, who remarkably embarked on her entrepreneurial expedition during her maternity leave - just like we did with Wildlings Forest School!
Gill invites us into her world, sharing her story with honesty, courage, and inspiration.
For Full Show Notes Head To 👉 https://www.raisingwildlings.com.au/blog/trusting-instincts-in-teaching-and-business-a-conversation-with-gill-howarth
Other ways we can help you:
Do you ever wonder what it takes to start a business while wrestling with the complexities of parenting young children?
Join us as we delve deep into the journey of Gill Howarth, the founder of Born Wise Education, who remarkably embarked on her entrepreneurial expedition during her maternity leave - just like we did with Wildlings Forest School!
Gill invites us into her world, sharing her story with honesty, courage, and inspiration.
For Full Show Notes Head To 👉 https://www.raisingwildlings.com.au/blog/trusting-instincts-in-teaching-and-business-a-conversation-with-gill-howarth
Other ways we can help you:
If you've been listening to our podcast for a while now, then you will have already met this week's guest.
Nicki Farrell:Jill Howarth is the owner of Bournemise Education and she was our most listened to episode on Spotify last year, and our conversation with her starts some really great conversations and questions that we wanted to continue with her, mainly how, for some people, the best time to start a wild business might be during maternity leave or when you have young children. It sounds crazy, I know, but in this episode, hear us out. We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we record today the Kabi, kabi and Gabi Gabi people. We recognise their continued connection to the land and waters of this beautiful place. We recognise Aboriginal people as the original custodians of this land and acknowledge that they have never ceded sovereignty. We respect all Gabi Gabi elders, ancestors and emerging elders, and all First Nations people listening today.
Vicci Oliver:Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about parenting, alternative education and stepping into the wilderness, however that looks, with your family.
Nicki Farrell:Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly inspire us to answer your parenting and education questions. We'll also be sharing stories from some incredible families that took the leap and are taking the road less travelled.
Vicci Oliver:Wear your hosts, vicki and Nikki from Wildlings Forest School, popping your headphones, settle in and join us on this next adventure.
Nicki Farrell:Firstly, I want to say a big thank you and welcome back to Jill, because she was well. Your episode was the most listened to last year out of our Spotify episodes and we've had lots of queries afterwards regarding your episode and I felt like this conversation hadn't finished. So thank you for coming back and thank you for sharing your wisdom with us again this week.
Gill Howarth:Oh, thank you for having me back on here. I was really really happy to be here, amazing.
Nicki Farrell:So I guess one of the most common questions we've been getting recently and post your episode as well was ah, I'm really passionate, I really want to start a business like BornWise or Wildlings, but I'm either about to have a baby or I've got young children or a mum maternity leave and it just seems crazy Am I crazy to be starting a business in this season of my lifetime? So I wanted to hear your journey, because I know you have a similar journey to ours and then just being really transparent and authentic about what that looked like, the ups, the downs, and why you chose that season.
Gill Howarth:Yeah, I mean it's it's a great conversation to have and I think it opens up, you know, the possibilities for different topics covered by this one. I just feel quite, you know, endless and and so important, I think, to listen to and tell our stories, as you know, especially women. You know all parents who are working, but I think, especially women, because the landscape is changing in many ways. We're kind of, I guess, thinking a little bit more philosophically about what it looks like to work as a mother and start a business, and I feel like for me, none of this was particularly planned. I didn't sort of have a really, you know, I'm not, I'm not a five year kind of a goal sort of person. I don't kind of even tend to think that far ahead.
Gill Howarth:Same and yeah, and it's interesting that you were in a similar part, I feel like, because it was around 2017 that you had the same this is my new yeah, which blows my mind, but I was, that's when I was pregnant with my third son in 2017. And, like I probably would have shared on the last episode, working in a school is actually an awesome school. Awesome school that I was working at, very nature based, regia inspired, beautiful space to work in. But I had two young boys already and was finding it just difficult, difficult to show up as a teacher, show up, then show up at home as a mom and do all of the things. And then was pregnant with my third. I just thought I don't, I don't know how I'm going to do this, you know, and I was, I was very, very tired, yeah, you know, even to the point, and I think what I thought I could do, sort of it was early, early in the year that I went. He was due in August. So I was thinking, well, I'll start another school year, probably be able to work till June, because you know, that's what I'd worked to quite close with my other sons.
Gill Howarth:I assumed I could do that again and I think by March, so not long into the school term, I just had this awareness of I'm exhausted, I'm not going to last till June, you know just really aware of how, how my body was feeling and I think the beauty of being pregnant Well, I don't know if this is for all women, but for me I'm less apologetic when I'm pregnant. For For him, right, do you know, like it's it's, it's not great that we have to be that what you know, that we have, we should feel OK, no matter what season we're in. But that stage I think third son, I thought I've done this before I feel terrible and I'm just not willing to be so tired and stressed, and I took early maternity leave. So I think that's an important thing to even mention in this conversation that I probably had a little bit of a backup window. I didn't just quit my job, I wasn't on paid maternity leave just for full transparency, but I had a window where I thought I actually still have a job to go back to and took that early maternity leave and very soon into that maternity leave I was thinking I probably won't go back to teaching.
Gill Howarth:I think I've picked the wrong career, reflecting on what my working life would look like and what it had looked like, and within a couple of weeks I sort of had this idea of well, what if I just didn't teach in a classroom?
Gill Howarth:What if I taught in a different space? What if I just did things a little bit differently? And I just allowed myself to explore that creativity, I guess, and inspiration, in stepping stones along the way, without, like I said, a very clear plan of what that might look like, but I did have like I sort of gave myself that year. I thought I've got a year to play with. When you know, when it rolls up and the school's calling and saying, are you coming back to the classroom? You know I can decide then if this just all goes pear shaped and it just doesn't work.
Gill Howarth:But I think you know and I say this about children all the time but I think it's the same for us I'm a big believer in allowing time and space, you know. So, just opening yourself up a little bit of space to go, well, what is possible when we try things differently? And so that was, honestly, that was about as clear as I was in those early days. I knew that I was passionate about early childhood, I was passionate about play and I was passionate about being outdoors with children. So I just thought, well, let's just focus there and see what happens. So you know, that is in itself probably coming from a quite privileged position, isn't it To be able to say I have this time and space to see what happens? Because does everyone have that, you know? Does everyone have time?
Nicki Farrell:and space to see what happens. When you were saying earlier about the amount of conversations this can pair off to, I was thinking the fact that Australia has you know it's. What are we now? Is it 18 weeks or 12 weeks? I'm not sure what it is now, because obviously I haven't had a baby recently, but we have access, unlike our US friends, to, let's call it, 12 weeks maternity leave if you've been working in a job for a year, I believe, and that gets pro-routed, depending on your hours, that you've worked.
Nicki Farrell:So there's an immense privilege in that already the fact that you've been working, because if you haven't been working, say you're on your third child and didn't go back to work you don't have that space and time. It is an enormous privilege and I think there is an end to that is that there is still an enormous amount of bravery, courage and willingness to fail, or I have a crack at it and go, oh well, I gave it a go, without burning yourself with any guilt or shame around that.
Nicki Farrell:If it doesn't and I think that's what I actually think that's what stops most people. I think it's not actually the finances, it's not actually the idea or the logistics or the planning or the paperwork. I actually think it's that leap and that willingness to fail. Do you have any tips or advice? Or what is it that allowed you in your mind, I guess, other than the job to fall back on to that allowed you to go whatever. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
Gill Howarth:I think I've always been pretty good with that concept of mistakes. I don't mind trying things, I don't mind. I've probably throughout my life had different just I hadn't planned it that way but different life experiences that did include failure. Do you know what? One of my first teaching jobs was actually a teaching contract in South Korea, and I was straight out of uni, quite young, with the Bachelor of Arts degree. I didn't have an admission degree back then and I took this teaching job in South Korea. I didn't know what it meant to teach, just assumed that they would teach me what they wanted me to do, but they didn't. They just opened the door and sent me in. There's a group of children teach them, and I didn't even speak. I didn't speak the language and, to make it even worse, I think our director watched us on our first day as well, so we didn't even get a chance to kind of try. I'd never planned a class in my life before. I had no idea what it was to plan, do a lesson plan, and I wrote this. I wrote this plan on paper and thought, yeah, that'll last me. He was the director's come in for 45 minutes to watch, and because I was so nervous and had no idea what I was doing. I went through that lesson plan in about six minutes and then got to the end of it and it was another excruciating, probably 40 minutes of me just trying to make anything. I failed. I failed one of my boss in front of all the kids in the class. It was awful, and I walked out of that room and I just thought, oh my gosh, I'm just feel humiliated and didn't wanna go back the next day. But the thing is I did go back the next day and I ended up loving the world. But I'm good at showing up, I'm good at coming back. So I feel like and that was part of for the first journey I think, with with BornWise for the first three or four months I had very small numbers in the classes as well I had.
Gill Howarth:I think it helps to share with full transparency. I don't want to paint a picture of it perfect from the first few days. I think there was one session that was a particularly wild and wet day but we obviously were still running and I left my children here with my husband. I had a late night I hadn't slept much drove out to the farm where I was teaching and I had one student, one family. I did the program, we went through everything. I was driving home and I just thought maybe this isn't wanted, maybe this actually doesn't have a demand. But I just kept checking in. I kept checking in with my intuition, I guess, and it said, just keep showing up, just keep showing up. I did.
Gill Howarth:A couple of months later, all of a sudden the program was full and there was a wait list and it got to that point actually quite quickly. I think I was quite lucky with how quickly it got there. But I had to go through a lot of discomfort and a lot of questioning myself and asking what are you doing? There was a trust. There was a trust Also just being okay. Well, people will say that there's one child here and here, and how does that feel? It feels uncomfortable, that might feel a little bit embarrassing, but just give the best that you have to this one child that's showing up because they're still here. There was a lot of that. There's a journey with that.
Nicki Farrell:You've touched on about three different things. I want to bring it back to, first of all, intuition. Without getting all hippie-diffie, I want to add there that we don't trust it enough, and I think, particularly in that postpartum period, it is like you have an electric, magnetic antenna on, and the more you can lean into that creative period and follow those creative juices, I actually think it's the best time to do that, because you're also I don't know about you, but you know your breastfeeding. You're quite often naptrapped. I don't always want to be on your phone, but my brain was just ideating oh, I could do this, I could play with this, I could try this. I couldn't do anything about it. I was absolutely naptrapped for those first couple of months, but I just kept a little pad of paper next to me and just wrote down all these ideas. And I think there's something to be said for writing these down and vision boards and things, because then you see the opportunities. So how, in what other ways have you listened to your intuition and it's worked for you?
Gill Howarth:Yeah, so with BornWise that was. You know that was my commitment as well. I'm glad you asked that question. I made the commitment at the start of BornWise to trust my intuition every step of the way and that was because I feel like I've always had a pretty decent connection to my intuition, as in there's often a knowing there and I think that actually comes from being so connected to my inner world, which has just come through storytelling, creative writing, poetry, all of that you know that's been in my past and they're just the things I love doing. That I think has kept and I would have to say working with young children I think has kept me that space of my inner world and I have a pretty good relationship. The thing that I didn't do was always trust the intuition. So I don't know about you, but you know, many times throughout my 20s and probably early 30s where my intuition was very loudly speaking to me and I would, I would shush it. You know I'd say no, no, no. You look crazy if you follow that.
Gill Howarth:You know other people shush it other people shush it, society shushes it. You know, we're not brought up to come into those. Well, I think we're turning around now to say, hey, that inner voice is very powerful. So, you know, and the you know, however that speaks to us, I guess it's through the body, the body, wisdom and all of these things we're starting to learn more about. And I was studying, doing my yoga teacher training, because I've always been interested in that philosophy and you know that was talking a lot about using your intuition to connect your body and being pregnant, I guess with my third, it was that intuition saying you can't keep working, you can't keep going to work, you need to stay home and rest and just going that, being unapologetic for it. Then you know, just saying, actually, my body and everything in me, my intuition, is saying no to continue working in this way. And I was scared oh, that's what. I was scared to leave work early because I was like, oh, what about this? And what if I lose my job? And what if they replace me? And what about the money? And what if, what if, what if?
Gill Howarth:But I followed the intuition and I think two weeks later I can't remember how it happened but the money that I was worried about actually came to my husband via another means and it was almost exactly what I would have earned to the end that I stayed. And I thought, oh, that's one of those just funny beautiful life moments and I thought, okay, I'm going to do this, I'm going to trust my intuition at Bournwise when I make decisions about my work and even if I can't do it in other areas of my life, you know, even if I struggle, this is just almost like an experiment. It was almost a bit of a science experiment. What will happen if I just make decisions based on my intuition?
Gill Howarth:One of the things that could have stopped me doing this would have been to say well, you're not a business person, jill, you're an educator and know about running a business. And plenty of people have said to me in those early but what do you know about running a business? And I thought probably not much. But I know a lot about relationships, I know a lot about early childhood and I know a lot about play. And I'm going to stick to what I know and trust that those other decisions will come. And it seems to work Every time I go against my intuition and make a rational, logical choice, because usually an external person or idea has told me to it doesn't work out for me. I don't know why.
Nicki Farrell:Our stories are so parallel. It's freaky, really Terrible, absolutely. So what does intuition feel like for you and your body? Could you, is there a saying that you use, or how do you test something to go? Yeah, that's my intuition says yes.
Gill Howarth:That's such an awesome question. I think for me it is just a no. I know for one of my sons his is a body experience. He seems to have a very physical experience to that yes or no, or it's his body to tell him and I can get that body knowing as well. You know, there's even those little exercises I think it's in kinesiology and things like that.
Nicki Farrell:You know, muscle testing yeah.
Gill Howarth:I've, and that works. But for me it just seems to be a knowing in my Gut or sort of in the area between my gut and my heart. It's just. It's really hard to describe and I don't think I've Become particularly articulate at being able to say what that is. It just is this knowing yeah, you know, it's just, there's no doubt, it's trust the thing. Like I said, the message is always there.
Gill Howarth:Then the acting on that can that I still, you know it can can get a little bit confused with that when it's when I second Self, you know, I think it's almost like it's so instinctual. You know, when you drive in a car and you do something to hesitate. You know when you hesitate, and then that's when you something Doesn't know happened with my son on the weekend playing cricket. He they put him on the head to play on the other team because the other team was short numbered and he went to take a catch. And he said to me afterwards his instinct was to take the catch because that's what you do when you play cricket. But then his mind said, hang on, that's your teammate and you're going to get you to any hesitated, and in that hesitation ball went straight into the nose. He's got a nice big kind of bruised.
Gill Howarth:Swipe and I said to him afterwards that it's that hesitation, isn't it. But there's this moment For me when I hesitate, that's when I kind of, then I, then I can shake my knowing and shake my intuitive space.
Nicki Farrell:So there's that's particular, particular no, but it's funny even as you were saying it, and I know what you mean about not being able to label it. I'm the same minds, but somewhere between my, my chest and my belly, and it's just this steady, affirmative, solid kind of yes, and I sometimes ask myself, you know, is it a excuse French, is it a fuck yes, or is it a yes? And if it's, not a yes then, then my body, because my body will tell me if it is, if I go all right, is it?
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, no. Quite often it's not that black and white right. Most of life is not just yes or no.
Gill Howarth:It's not, and that's actually a beautiful point because it's often there's. I'm a big believer in timing as well, because I think this might be getting a little bit hippie deep, but I think we have to try to remember it. We're just not one individual floating in space. We're actually a vision, with so many other humans but also life forms in the natural world, that sometimes you know, when we're trying to make a decision about something, it's actually we think it's all about us, but it's not all about us, and sometimes life to happen, or it needs to, you know, the time isn't right.
Gill Howarth:So sometimes I can go and want to get, you know, a very clear guidance or, you know, decision making process, and there's just nothing. You know, I don't get a yes, I don't get a no in this, in between space. That used to be really frustrating for me, but now I trust that of just going, this isn't the right time to know that, and sometimes it can be a week later, and then I'll suddenly get a really strong yes or a really strong no. You know, up until whatever happened for those things to pan out. And that's something I like to remember because I think. I think sometimes it's important not to well, just to remember, it's not always about you as the individual either. You know like this system anyway.
Nicki Farrell:That we're in this collective as well as in the human experience and you know there's a lot to be said for that where energy goes and flows as a society, if things are changing, then things, those doors, will open up more quickly at those different times.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, yeah, I've been in the same boat where it's been like I really want to do that, but it's just feeling really hard, or it's just not feeling like my mind wants to do it, but something's just I'm not making the calls or I'm not doing the things I know I should be doing to make that happen. And then a month later maybe it's cyclical, because I definitely, you know, in my, in my PMS phase, I'm definitely less likely to outreach and really push for things and drive for things. But often a week's not long enough in most decisions, you know, to make things just disappear. But you, like you said, a month later, sometimes a year or more later, those things will come up again and it's a different person or a different version of what you originally ideated, and then bang it's on. It's wild.
Gill Howarth:It's kind of you know to follow that as well.
Nicki Farrell:So another thing I wanted to circle back to was you were saying oh, sometimes I just needed quiet that voice or those doubts. Another thing that we get a lot of people say to us is, oh God, the imposter syndrome. Like you said, who am I to run a business? Who am I, to you know, lead programs with children outdoors? Again, what is it the fact that you're willing to fail? Is it the fact that you're, is it just the confidence that you're having yourself? How do you shush that voice when it, when it does raise its head? How do you shush?
Gill Howarth:it? How do I shush? Well, for me it's often turning up and actually doing the thing, teaching. I get a lot of what's the right word, not so much reassurance, I think satisfaction. I get a lot of satisfaction in my work, and so when I show up and it's so relationships-based and that's something that is a huge driving force for me. You know, it's when I see a child, simple things, telling a story, or when I see a child just being able to express themselves. Or last week we had a sharing circle that came about spontaneously, around mistakes, and so myself and Nat, who I work with, and the children, we all shared a mistake in the circle. The rest of us just listened to the circles, and you know that whenever I'm having doubt, I think I draw upon those, those memories and those experiences.
Gill Howarth:I spend a lot of time reflecting. It just seems to be something I naturally do. Whether I'm in the shower or I'm driving or go for a walk, I'm often in reflective mode. I'm probably in reflective mode more than I'm in planning mode. Nice, so I yeah, I don't do much planning at all.
Gill Howarth:I'm very backwards by design, but I think what reflection gives you is an opportunity to not through any bells and whistles.
Gill Howarth:You know it doesn't don't need to hold a party or anything like that, but it allows me to celebrate the winds and celebrate the really beautiful moments, and my job's always done that for me, like even when I was teaching in the system and classrooms.
Gill Howarth:I'm good at and I don't know why, but I'm good at reflecting on and finding these beautiful, joyful moments and holding them inside. I don't know, I don't know, and I think that's also comes to I. Also documentation is a lot reflective the way I use my social media. I make sure my social media is. I don't want it to be like a inauthentic space that everything you know is just happy all the time, but I do use it as a gratitude space to reflect on the beautiful moments. And so at the end of the week, if it's been a tough week and I think, oh, you know, what are you doing, should you be doing this I will use my Instagram post as a way of expressing joy and appreciation for the good stuff that's happened in the week. So I think I think that's a lot to do with it.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, I was just going to say I think mindset. I think, if you want to know, the number one thing that makes a successful business is a business owners mindset, and I think everything you've been saying it's been about reflection and positive mindset, it's gratefulness, it's finding the good in those things, being able to be a scientist that experiments and is willing to fail. I think I think it's mindset. I think when you can fail and get back up again and have another, go and reflect on that and go, oh well, I'll try again. I honestly think anyone can run a business if you have the right mindset. And again, we I want to continue this conversation about seasons and whatnot and expectations on yourself, but I truly think if you're a lifelong learner and curious to learn, everything's available. It's on the internet. You know we talk about that. With learning and homeschooling as it is, there's no, no different to a child homeschooling or unschooling, as there is an adult learning how to do business without a business degree. Here we are, we're doing okay, yeah.
Gill Howarth:Yeah, it's very true, it's really true and also, I think, being okay with so. For me, everything about learning, no matter how old you are, is about getting to know yourself, and the more you know about yourself, you know, and I don't believe in just sticking to the areas we're really good at. I think it's a growth and an evolution. Is also about getting you know, paying attention to the things that we aren't so good at, but just not obsessing over those things. And, if you can, what I've managed to do is pair, pair up something I'm not I didn't know much about, which is business, with something I know a lot about, which is early childhood and nature, and though they complemented each other so beautifully. But the other thing is being welcoming in, support and help and other people who, you know, just thrive on doing the things that I'm not quite asked.
Gill Howarth:There's awesome art educated working with me now. Nat and I got her into BournWise because I started to observe that the children's art skills had gone beyond mine, as in their technical, physical skills. You know, I'm great at open-ended creativity, but I'm not so great at product and technique and skill, and the children were asking me questions about clay and I, you know, I was like I actually don't know and we can learn together. And part of learning together was finding Nat, and Nat came in and did a clay workshop for us and then I said I think I need you to be here all the time and welcome to BournWise.
Gill Howarth:Yeah, she's been here now I think it's maybe two or three years. She's running her own specialist art program on the same philosophy as BournWise, now as an extra program that we can offer. And you know that all came about just from me going OK, I know also well, I'm not good at it. I know I like to find people who are Good at the things I'm not good at. And I've got a gardening educator now as well, because we've got access to the farm that I run the programs at. We've access to that a lot more now, so we're running the program three day a week.
Gill Howarth:It's a beautiful organic farm and part of taking on that space is knowing how to take care of it and doing all the permit culture. And I thought, well, I know that when I'm at capacity, I'm pretty much at capacity in what I do football and why is it the moment? So I thought I need someone else to come in and help with this. So we've got now an awesome garden educator who comes in and the beautiful thing is Carmen when she's gardening. Carmen is so good at what she does, it's such her passion and such her thing. And that's the same for Nat with her art, and I'm a big believer in community being about allowing people to shine in their purpose, and I think when we try to do everything by ourselves, that's when we just that doesn't even feel very good we're not built to be like that.
Nicki Farrell:We're going to pause our conversation with Jill here for now because it's so juicy and getting quite long we thought we'd break it into two parts. So we understand a lot of you are listening to this on the drive to work or on your walks. It's nice to have shorter episodes to finish. So join us again next week as we continue this conversation with Jill. We talk about being enough, about forgiving yourself, about what Jill's days look like with young children, starting a new business and how what we're doing is, as running small business with children is almost an act of activism. Join in next week and until then, stay wild.