Have you ever wondered how an educational institution could place well-being at the heart of its ethos and practice?
Join us for an eye-opening talk with Claire Bartlett, the founding Principal of Woodline Primary, as we discuss its journey from ideation to a growing community of students and families.
Claire opens the door to Woodline's unique perspective on education. She highlights how the school's emphasis on connection, language, and individual attention fosters an environment that nurtures emotional intelligence. We also gain insight into the school's restorative practice and the role of families in the education process. Hear firsthand the challenges faced in setting up a school and the crucial part the Victorian Registration and Qualifications Authority played in ensuring Woodline met the approval requirements.
For Full Show Notes Head To: https://www.raisingwildlings.com.au/blog/building-community-through-education-woodline-primary-s-success-story
Other ways we can help you:
Have you ever wondered how an educational institution could place well-being at the heart of its ethos and practice?
Join us for an eye-opening talk with Claire Bartlett, the founding Principal of Woodline Primary, as we discuss its journey from ideation to a growing community of students and families.
Claire opens the door to Woodline's unique perspective on education. She highlights how the school's emphasis on connection, language, and individual attention fosters an environment that nurtures emotional intelligence. We also gain insight into the school's restorative practice and the role of families in the education process. Hear firsthand the challenges faced in setting up a school and the crucial part the Victorian Registration and Qualifications Authority played in ensuring Woodline met the approval requirements.
For Full Show Notes Head To: https://www.raisingwildlings.com.au/blog/building-community-through-education-woodline-primary-s-success-story
Other ways we can help you:
In today's episode we're chatting to Claire Bartlett, the founding principal of Woodline Primary School in Geelong.
Nicki Farrell:It's an innovative, independent school that has well-being at the centre of all that they do. So today we talk about the importance of connection, the role that language plays in schools, how behaviour management doesn't need to be punitive, and the hardest parts of starting a brand new school. Woodline is the kind of school that my own early teacher dreams were made of Barefoot time and nature, emotional intelligence and well-being at the centre of everything, a deep focus on the individual child and a place that actually holds space for teachers too. So come and join us and be inspired, because you can't be what you can't see. We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we record today the Kabi Kabi and Gabi Gabi people. We recognise their continued connection to the land and waters of this beautiful place. We recognise Aboriginal people as the original custodians of this land and acknowledge that they have never ceded sovereignty. We respect all Gabi Gabi elders, ancestors and emerging elders, and all First Nations people listening today.
Vicci Oliver:Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about parenting, alternative education and stepping into the wilderness, however that looks with your family Each week we'll be interviewing experts that truly inspire us to answer your parenting and education questions.
Nicki Farrell:We'll also be sharing stories from some incredible families that took the leap and are taking the road less travelled.
Vicci Oliver:Wear your hosts, vicki and Nikki from Wildlings Forest School, pop in your headphones, settle in and join us on this next adventure.
Nicki Farrell:Hello and welcome to the Raising Wildlings podcast. I'm your host, Nikki Farrell, and today we're joined by Claire Bartlett of Woodline Primary School. Welcome to the show, Claire. Thank you so much for joining us today. How's your morning been so far running? You're a principal running the school. I can only assume that it's always a mix.
Claire Bartlett:Yes, you certainly never know what you're going to get, which is part of what I love about my job. I love that every day is different and you're just going to go with the flow. But my day always starts I arrive, I get set up for the morning and then at 8.15 every morning we have team connection. So it's a chance to check in with the team, see how they're going, chance for us all to connect, and then it's a really good gauge for us being the leaders to see how everyone's going. They might need to tap out, they might need to have a chat for that day, and we mix it up. So this morning I asked everyone how they're feeling.
Claire Bartlett:It's hump day today. We're nearing holiday, so everyone's getting a bit tired. We've got quite a few people away unwell, but the vibe was really beautiful this morning. I expected to get on. I'm tired and I'm really struggling to get to the finish line, but there were words such as content and excited and feeling great. So that was beautiful. And then at 8.30 I go out and I stand on the gate every morning and I welcome the children and the families when they arrive and the children are invited to bring a fruit or a vegetable. So I'm out there with a basket every morning collecting the fruit and the vegetables. So then we cut that up in the morning and then each group has a beautiful grazing platter that the children can graze on throughout the morning. Then after that I've just been replying to a few emails and now I'm here, which is very exciting.
Nicki Farrell:Can I just say it shouldn't blow my mind that something as simple as a grazing platter, but I've come from state schools and we were allowed a fruit break and that was pretty much it. But just the fact that you've connected in the morning and you're contributing as a community to that basket, which means everybody has food as well, and it's nutritious and healthy, and you're preparing that together and that it's there to share, what a beautiful intention for the morning. Have you noticed a difference starting the day like that.
Claire Bartlett:Absolutely so. It is something that's really simple and there's so many, as you pointed out, so many beautiful reasons as to why it's a great idea, but I guess it is that community piece. For us, it is that offering it is. As we know, sometimes children don't feel like eating breakfast or they might not have had the opportunity. So to be able to have some food when they're ready food is so important for learning, for wellbeing. But one of my favourite parts about it is we have a little small group so we do farm committees every morning, so one of our learning groups is in charge of it per day. And then this morning's group is Terran's group, and so there's a little group that come from that and they cut up the fruit. So they're learning so many beautiful life skills as part of that program. And then another little group are out feeding the animals and collecting the eggs and they're on the little animal committee. And then there's a waste committee so they go and empty all of our recycle bins and our compost.
Nicki Farrell:That's amazing. It's so again. Some of these things are so simple and I know it's the harder to do in bigger schools, but they're not impossible and it takes a lot of drive and commitment from a leadership and then the educators as well. Can you run us through, for those of you that have never heard of Woodline Primary, how you started, what the intention of philosophy was behind it, where you located, how big you are, and just tell us your story?
Claire Bartlett:So Woodline was founded in 2021. So our founder, melanie Austin, started the journey with Layale Stone probably three or four years before we opened. So Melanie has six children and three who were in primary school, and when they first started school she felt that it just wasn't suiting their needs and it wasn't aligning with their family values. So she felt that the children had to kind of arm her up for the day. They'd go, they'd be compliant, they'd do what they were told, they'd eat when they were told, they'd sit and learn how they were told and then when she would get them at the end of the day, she would have to do a lot of holding as they unleashed all of those pent-up emotions from throughout the day and they weren't loving learning and she just thought this isn't for our family. So she actually employed a teacher to homeschool her children. But as they got older, she felt that real need for social connection and being a part of a group and needing more of a challenge with their learning. And she was a client of Layale Stone who at the time was helping parents with we're parenting courses and she was a parenting consultant. So Mal went to her and said Layale, this is what I would love. I've got the money, I've got the facilities. Would you help me build it?
Claire Bartlett:And Layale had had similar experiences with her adult children and was like sure, which was so brave and courageous of both of them, because it hasn't been easy. So they reached out to a lot of schools in there well, victoria, but they went to schools like the Green School in Bali. They did lots of research, they found consultants who could help them with it and then they just put in the hard yards, came up against a lot of blockers. So it's not easy to open a school, and nor should it be. They should be compliant and governed well. But I just can't believe that they actually were so determined and persistent that they got to the point where we are now. So I came on board in 2020, originally actually 2019, we were meant to open in 2020. But unfortunately at that time the council wouldn't approve the land to be a school. But it was actually a blessing, because then COVID hit. So we're so grateful that we actually didn't open in 2020 because we probably in reality wouldn't have survived.
Claire Bartlett:So then I came on board in term for 2020, ready for a 2021 opening Wow. So really, the whole philosophy is based around emotional well-being and that their priority, and knowing that if we get that right, the learning will come and it will be greater.
Nicki Farrell:I mean, it sounds so simple, doesn't it? But when you know, how children learn. Well-being needs to come first. So what does that look like at Woodline?
Claire Bartlett:There's so many different ways that it looks like I think the first thing, one of our core values is connection. So we really focus on connection to self, connection to others and connection to place, and we are really blessed. We're on the most beautiful property in series in Geelong so what a wrong country. And we're our schools on 20 acres and that 20 acres sits on 300. So it's on farmland. We're allowed to use the farm, so we're very blessed in that way.
Claire Bartlett:So we spend morning. So, as I said before, connection time with the team, but also every morning connection time with the children. So really checking in how they feel, engaging the tone for the day. A lot of our learning is hands on outside Amazing. We give choice where we can. We really follow the children's interests. So we're a regio inspired school, so respecting the rights of the children, really listening to the children, documenting their theories, their questions, their wonderings and letting that guide our curriculum. So we do follow the Australian curriculum. People always worry that there isn't learning happening. There absolutely is learning and I would argue, as I said before, that it's greater. So we have a beautiful saying, which is that we uncover the curriculum, we don't cover it.
Nicki Farrell:I love that. Yes, that's perfect. It is, isn't it? Because you're discovering it rather than been fed it and told it, and taught even how to learn it, to uncover it. That's magical.
Claire Bartlett:Absolutely, and that idea of going deeper so not trying to cover as much, but really going deeper with their learning.
Nicki Farrell:Oh, that's amazing. It's what are you seeing, having been teaching in other spaces before? What are you seeing as a difference in the children that are attending Woodline to perhaps other schools that you've worked at or worked around?
Claire Bartlett:I think what I'm seeing is that the children have a really strong sense of who they are, what their needs are and what they can do to have their needs met. So our children are really confident in sharing how they're feeling and then what they might be needing with that, and sometimes they don't know, and that's okay. But they know themselves as a learner, they know their interests, they're not scared to question. So if there is a guideline that we have or if there's something that we're doing, they will respectfully question us and I love that and it's a really good opportunity for us to reflect and go yeah, why are we doing that? So one of the most beautiful things, I think, is we don't have a uniform. We have an optional one and lots of the children choose to wear it, but we don't impose it and I think it's beautiful. You can see the individuals. That's another one of our values is honouring the individual, and then the children can go barefoot, which I am forever picking up socks and shoes around the yard they can climb trees.
Claire Bartlett:So I've listened to a lot of your episodes of your podcast and it really everything that you share resonates so beautifully with our school.
Nicki Farrell:It gives me, can I just say, so much hope, and I say this all the time to people that you know. Would you ever send your children to school? Yeah, if the right one was around. But in our area there's not at the moment, and we get inundated with inquiries about how to start a school and we have to say don't ask us, we have no idea. All we know is that it's hard, so it gives me so much.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, it definitely is hard. Yeah, and I think it gives me so much hope to see a model like Woodline out, focusing on wellbeing and movement and nature and the individual, because so much of what we see in schools is not intentionally about conformity but the behaviour management, because a lot of the schools are just so big and as a teacher, I understand the need. Whether I agree with how we go about it's a different matter, but what are some of the barriers you guys face starting the school and starting a school that does fit outside the box a little?
Claire Bartlett:So one of the hurdles was cancel and getting approval for the land, and obviously there has to be respect for the neighbours in the equation as well, and so there were some people who objected to the school who have now visited school and absolutely love it and are so pleased that we've opened. The biggest hurdle was the VRQA. So they're our governing body in Victoria and they are probably one of the strictest out of all of the states, which, as I said, I think it's important. But it was challenging for us in the amount of times we had to change our policies to meet their requirements. But they were really. I think once they knew that mail and mail were serious and that they weren't going to go away, they were actually really helpful and they were really behind us. They really could see the need for something different. They just wanted to make sure that we were doing our due diligence.
Claire Bartlett:Obviously child safety is paramount, so it was probably the time factor in the set up was the most challenging part, because until you get that approval you can't really start all the other pieces that come into building a school. And then as soon as we got that, which wasn't until the January that we opened, we really had to huffle from there to get the doors open. But we started with two groups and we only had 30 children. We've grown to six groups this year with 96 children, and next year we'll be adding our seventh group and we'll be stopping at 120 children.
Nicki Farrell:So that was my question. So we know, we do what we do we have to stay small? Yeah, that's amazing and that's what led you to that decision, because I think it's so easy to just take everybody, because there is such a need for what you provide and to want to help all the families. But what has made you go? 120 is the number Ish.
Claire Bartlett:Yes. So I think 16 is our group size and we know that anything above that we wouldn't be able to hold the space that we do for the children. So my heart really does go out to educate. As we hear, some people have between 25 and 30 children in their class and that's really hard. That's hard on that teacher to try and meet those all of those individual needs.
Claire Bartlett:As we know, children are individuals and they are also different and they all need different things. So we need to have those small numbers to be able to really truly meet their needs. We also have an assistant in each group, so we've got two adults to the 16 children and that really allows us to make all of the adjustments that we need to be able to hold space, listen to the feelings, to give them those regular movement breaks to really target their learning as well and give them the learning support that they need. And even then it's a big ask of our guides what we're doing at Woodline. It's really draining, it's a lot when you're holding all of those emotions and you're really working so hard to meet all of those needs. So looking after the team is really important as well.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, that's a really beautiful thing to acknowledge, I think, because there's so much as an educator or a guide to hold. You're doing all the teaching work. But that holding of the space I don't think people realise and understand, because most people work with one client, one on one. As an adult, in a job that they'd work, they're working with one on one. There might be a few jobs where you work with multiple people, or nursing, where you're dealing with multiple people across the day, but when you've got 16 or 25 and they're all bringing their own individual needs, how do you hold space for your guides, for your teachers?
Claire Bartlett:Great question. So there's three of us on our executive team so myself, our deputy principal, rachel, and our leader of wellbeing, beth and so it's quite unusual for a school our size to have three executive team members but also to have the three of us that don't have a teaching load. So we really are available to jump in and tap out if needed. So there was a guide this morning who shared that they'd had a really rough night at home and you could tell they were unbalanced. So Beth will go in and have a chat if they want to. If they don't want to chat about it, maybe Beth could take their group for a little bit so that they can go for a walk, giving them sort of listening time.
Claire Bartlett:So we do a lot of holding as an executive team, so we'll have guides come in and just go oh, I need to just get it out and they might have a big cry or just talk about it and I think it's creating that safety. So we really encourage our team to be vulnerable, but they have to feel safe to be able to do that, so that it's okay to come in and say you're not having a good day or that Western didn't go well and it's really upset you because of whatever reason, but our team really do a lot of the work as well. So, leaning into the triggers, why did that upset me so much? What is that bringing up for me? We've all had to do a lot of unlearning, but we're all doing the self-development work that's needed to be able to do what we're doing here.
Nicki Farrell:Gosh, that's incredible. To be able to hold the space for the team to actually regulate themselves is something I know again as a teacher. That I would go in sometimes with zero sleep from having babies and here and then having to hold space for 25 others, and it's no wonder we are triggered by minor things.
Claire Bartlett:You can see why educators resort to it's almost a protection mode. They've got so much going on in their day. They're accountable for so many things. They've got meetings, they've got reports. There's so much to an educator's role that we have so much empathy for all of the educators out there, because it is a really challenging role. Of course, it is rewarding and it's amazing. Otherwise we wouldn't do it, but I really would.
Claire Bartlett:I just hope that the government really takes a step back and really evaluates why schools are struggling and it is the demands that are placed on teachers. The workload is too much. I think parents have changed over time. Parents are wanting much more. They want to be much more involved in their child's education, which is amazing. It's something that we really value here. But that comes at a cost to the educators as well and, I think, all schools. Since COVID we've seen such a shift in children's needs. So, speaking to other principals in all different schools, the amount of children with additional needs has skyrocketed and the adjustments that schools are having to make is huge and that really it has to come back to the government's really stepping up, really listening to what the schools are saying and putting in the support.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, and I think just that acknowledgement from leadership that it is hard and there will be times when you're going to rake and need to be held and we're here for you. Again, it sounds so simple and I had some great hods that I knew that were my safe space and I could go to, but I have to say there weren't leadership above that that I felt that I could go and have a breakdown in their office about without and I think that's my own pressure.
Nicki Farrell:I'm sure if I had have gone and done that I would have been held. But that permission straight up from leadership to say my door is open. I understand this job is hard and I'm here for you when it is hard. It's so big, it's so big, it's so big. Yeah, that's incredible.
Claire Bartlett:And then, I think, who's looking after the principles? Is what I would then put out there, because I'm really blessed, I've got Layle, so Layle supports me weekly, so we'll, we'll meet. I block out a good hour to two hours just to sit and talk through everything with her and I have a big cry and do whatever it is that I need to do so that I'm feeling balanced so that I can hold all of that for the team as well, and I have some fellow principal friends who they don't have that person like.
Claire Bartlett:They are at the top and there's no one really there above them to hold them, and we've seen a massive increase in principles leaving education and it's. I would say that is why they are holding so much and there's no one there to hold them.
Nicki Farrell:And they are the holders of stakeholders. You know they are answerable to everybody parents, teachers, regional boards. It's incredible the pressure that you hold and, like you said, I'm sure for most principles, they don't feel like they can turn up to regional's office and just have a big cry. So exactly where do they go? And where is that support other than other principles? And even then, to get the time to do that, because your loads are so big, so big, so cut principles and slightly everybody.
Nicki Farrell:I want to talk about behavior management, particularly, like you said, post COVID. Everyone I have spoken to, my teacher friends, my principal friends have acknowledged the same thing that not just additional needs but the just general behavior management not management has been, has leveled up. It's the wrong word I'm looking for. But how do you go about it if it's not punitive because quite often in a lot of schools it is, and how do you, how do you go about achieving that outward line?
Claire Bartlett:Great question. I think, starting at the start, it's really knowing the individual child and then making sure that whatever adjustments need to be made made, and I think one of the beautiful things we do here at the line is adjustments that might be made in other schools are our norm. So having different seating options, having regular movement breaks, really gauging does the child need to have a release of emotion so that they can be ready to learn? But beyond that, if there was a behavior that's not desired, we have a saying that it's always about looking behind the behavior. So we'll start off with saying what we can see. So let's just say, a child I don't know was annoying another child in the in a learning space. I can see that you've got some feelings happening. Do you want to talk to me about it? Is there another way that we can help shift those feelings and so the child might go yeah, I want to have 20 bounces on the trampoline or I want to go and visit the cows. So just asking the questions rather than making judgments, and really listening to what it is that they're saying and providing them that chance to shift whatever those feelings are that are leading to that behavior we look at. Have they got enough information? So maybe they're feeling really uncertain in their learning or in whatever is happening at that time. So do they need more information? Can I be playful in it? So if they're not listening, could it be all? I think I've lost my ears today. Can you help me find them? Or or something just to bring that joy in that sense of fun, so that it's not that power over and that authority If there are behaviors keep continuing.
Claire Bartlett:It couldn't be that really firm but loving boundary? You know I've asked you to do this. This is why it's important. This is the boundary. Now I'm going to ask you to stop doing whatever it is that they're doing, and if it continues, ok, I can see this isn't working and it would then be taking them out of the space if it's distracting the other children. But once again, it's not that authoritarian approach. It's really trying to have that loving approach to it. I've heard you, I'm listening, I'm here, I'm here to support you. How can we both get our needs met here?
Claire Bartlett:Then, beyond that, it's a real restorative approach, and I think a lot of schools are doing the restorative approach, which is really beautiful, so it's no blame. It's really trying to have everyone be heard and then having the children coming up with agreements on how we are going to be going forward. If, at that point, if behaviors are more severe or they're more ongoing, families are really important parts to the piece of the puzzle. So having them involved and having their support, we then might create a support plan. So if it's got to the point where all of those other things aren't working, we're really clear on what our goals are and what we're trying to achieve and how we're going to achieve it. Beyond that which hopefully we aren't getting beyond that, but if we were, it would be a reset day at home. So just to give that chance, that child a chance to reset, come back grounded, the hopefully the next day, but also probably to give the other children a bit of a reset from them as well, and then we start fresh again.
Nicki Farrell:Just the language that you're using around these things. Can you talk to us about the different language that you use at Woodline, because I think just calling it a reset day rather than say a suspension, and only being one day rather than three seven, ten as well. It's not punitive, it's the same thing, but straight away. It's like sometimes you just need a mental health day at home and we're giving you the permission to go and have that. Can you talk to us about that?
Claire Bartlett:Yes. So language is very important to us at Woodline, and so even our choice of God as opposed to teacher was really well thought through and the team were really involved in choosing all of the different titles that we would use. Language is everything. Language is so powerful. I think the difference in what we're trying to do is that the child always feels seen and heard and knows that we're there to support them. So we're not angry with them. We don't want to shame them. We don't want them to feel bad. We can see that there's something going on for them. So how can we support you to shift whatever that is? Because no child feels good when they're making those choices that are upsetting others or aren't feeling good for adults as well. They're not doing it to upset us. They're doing it because there's a need that's not met. So how can we you know people that are with them six hours plus a day really show that we are there for them and supporting them and that we see them?
Nicki Farrell:I love that. How do you go about educating or guiding the children to learning that language, because, again, it is so important and even them being able to label their needs and label their emotions, that's huge, that is. I know a lot of adults that would have a need for learning those tools and that language as well.
Claire Bartlett:Is that something that's very?
Nicki Farrell:intentional at Woodline.
Claire Bartlett:Absolutely. So we do have some wellbeing sessions in our rhythm, so that's another word that we use. Our timetable is a rhythm, but really it's that idea of that wellbeing is weaved throughout the day. So we do have explicit sessions where we will talk about emotional literacy and we will role play and we unpack all of those really important skills, personal capabilities, but then it's just that consistency. So I think if we're consistently modelling for the children and using the language, they pick up on it and they certainly do so. When I was talking before about restorative the children, you see them doing it themselves. We don't even need to be involved anymore. They'll be like you go, first I'll talk and then they'll try and problem solve it together, which is just so beautiful.
Nicki Farrell:That's amazing and I think I just can't wait to see this generation that are coming through Woodline, the ripple effect that it's going to have on your community, to have this generation of you know that will be adults that are able to communicate so respectfully and pick a need in somebody else and be able to say oh, I might be wrong, but I can see you might need blah, blah, blah. Am I right? And if not, you know, what is it that you think you need? Can I help with that? What do you need, rather than the shame, the guilt, the yelling, the gosh, the community growth that this is going to have. Can you see it? Can you see it starting already?
Claire Bartlett:Absolutely, and I do so. We absolutely see the immediate effects, but I really think this is a long-term game what we're doing, and we won't really know until years down the track when we can revisit the children and really see the impact. But it's little things like the other day I had a mum share that she's got two boys here and the older boy was crying and the younger brother said to him I'm really happy that you're crying, I'm not happy that you're sad, but I'm really happy because keeping your emotions inside you is really bad and it just makes me teary. Sharing it. I was like that's what we are about and we have so many beautiful stories and examples of children and families that the impact has been significant.
Claire Bartlett:So obviously we can't do it alone and our families are really important and we really need our families doing the work as well. And it's so hard and I really want to acknowledge that because it brings up so much. We all have traumas, we all have experiences as children at school and we had parentings hard, and so what we're asking of our children and our team and our families, it's a lot, but the benefits are so worth how hard it is. So even parents changing the language that they're using at home, them changing, avoiding consequences and really listening to their children and what's going on and valuing connection, valuing time outside in nature. It's huge and we know what we're doing is magical and I could give you a million stories about the impact that it's had on families and it's just such a privilege to be here in this space.
Nicki Farrell:I don't think I'm ready for the stories, because that one just made me teary already.
Claire Bartlett:It just made me think before about the modelling piece. So there was one day where one of our guides came in. They were going through a really rough time personally and they came in and just broke down in my office and they were in there for two hours crying and talking and it was really big for them. And once they had shifted all of the tears and had come back into balance, I offered for them to go home for the rest of the day and they said actually I really wanted to stay and the kids bring me so much joy. I want to go back into the learning space. And so they went back in and the children asked them where they had been and I would put money on that.
Claire Bartlett:Most educators would make up a story and say they were in a meeting or something had happened. And that guide said to the children I've actually been in Clare's office crying. I was feeling really sad, I've had a big cry and I'm actually feeling so much better and that modelling was so powerful for those children to go. It's OK to cry, let it out, because once it's out you do feel like you can go through with the rest of the day. But if you don't get it out. You just can't.
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, absolutely. That's made me tear again I think there might be PMSI, but also these stories are just really powerful. It is that, again, that modelling is. You can't underestimate it, can we? It's that permission for every one of those children, as an adult, to seek help, to let those emotions out. Have you got universities involved? Is anyone researching the impact that you're having at all? Because, gosh, I would love to see that.
Claire Bartlett:So would we. So we actually our local university is Deakin University and we were in talks with them but they couldn't find the funding which is so unfortunate to do the research because we were really hoping that they would follow our foundation group from last year. So obviously in our first year we were getting, apart from our foundation children, every other child was coming in with different schooling experience, which was really challenging. And every year we've had that with our growth, that if any child's come in, they're also unlearning and undoing and it takes what we call it woodlining it. So it takes them a while to be woodlined and so we are looking forward to next year.
Claire Bartlett:Yeah, every new child will essentially for the majority will be our foundation children, so they will be woodlined from the start, because it's such a difference if they start with us as to having to undo what's happened before they've come to us, which is why we started a play group this year. So in turn three we had our first play group just to help with that beautiful transition for the young children coming into school, so that they feel connected to the school and they are familiar and they know the team and they know the other children. So we're really looking forward to watching those children come through, and we would really welcome anyone out there if they want to research what we're doing. We would absolutely love that, because we're still building our school.
Nicki Farrell:We don't have the time at the moment to do that in addition to what we're doing? Oh gosh, no, and I think you know it's. You need that unbiased, you know, because we know that you're, what you're doing is amazing. But you do need that second opinion from outside, don't you need to do it? But oh gosh, I can't imagine those children that are coming from play group and the parents are getting that, you know, side by side kind of osmosis. They just kind of absorb the parenting. Because we see it in our own play groups, you know, because we use a lot of that aware parenting and attachment parenting kind of language and talking about needs, and we get told a lot that the reason a lot of parents come back is because they're learning so much from other parents. So for those children coming through at play group age, for them to be woodlined before they even get in, absolutely.
Claire Bartlett:Oh my goodness. And the parents are such an important piece to the puzzle. As I said before, I think we can't do it this way and then it'd be a different way at home. We really need that beautiful, consistent approach from home to school, and the benefits will be amazing.
Nicki Farrell:Oh my goodness, what you're doing is incredible. I know there will be a bunch of teachers listening here that will be wanting to know how the heck they get a job with you. What are you looking? For if even when there are vacancies. What are you looking for in your guides? What is it that sets your guides apart from other teachers?
Claire Bartlett:That is an amazing question for two reasons. Firstly, the exec team. We've been reading a lot around recruitment because we have found our school is not for everybody, and that is okay. So the guides have to be really willing to lean into their stories, be willing to do the work, be willing to be vulnerable, because otherwise it doesn't work. So we've had team members come in and team members go and I don't feel that it's a blame on us as to school or them as a human. I think you have to be in the right space in the right time when you come to Woodline, because sometimes people just aren't ready to do all of that yet, and that's okay. We totally understand that. So we're really looking for people who are open. They're willing to do their personal work as well as their professional work. They're really open to their unlearning. So the longer a teacher has been teaching, the harder it probably is here, because there's so much more to unlearn. But I think they just need to really have the qualities that we're hoping for in the children. So have that curiosity and that wonder, have the sense of joy, be willing to play. Are they going to be climbing the trees with the kids and getting muddy in the mud kitchen? Are they able to listen? Are they good listeners?
Claire Bartlett:So we've spent a lot of time refining our recruitment process and we feel like we've actually nailed it. We've just gone through an interview process and we've been so pleased with the outcome and the end result. So our interviews aren't like normal interviews. The first question is about tell us the challenge in your life and how you worked through it. We don't talk about assessments and data or literacy blocks. We'll be asking you about magical moments that you've had in teaching or why you became a teacher. How does it feel when a child's crying for you? So our interviews are not your typical interviews and we really just want to get a beautiful sense of the human that's in front of us, because we know that we can help outskill them in any areas relating to pedagogy and behaviour management and all of those things. So we're not yeah, we don't look for the data questions so much.
Nicki Farrell:What a relief. It's really refreshing because straight away you can see those questions that are about the child and I think you know data. Yes, yes, there's information that can be extracted from data. But how do you know what's going on at home from data? And I think that's for children aren't safe, they can't learn. So those questions straight away set up Teachers to care more than about what's in front of them in assessment and more about the child and what's going on in their life, and that's life changing. That is just, that's incredible.
Claire Bartlett:I think so. We use the phrase learning information as opposed to data, because really that information, as you said, it's not just about the score, it's the story behind the score. And if you know your child and your children, you should know the story behind it. And we absolutely assess the children. We do capture all of the learning information, we do analyse it. We are so accountable to their learning. So I don't want to give the impression that we don't do all of those things. No, absolutely do. It's just that the emphasis is different.
Nicki Farrell:And I think that's again, the language is so important and again, I'm not completely against assessment because it does give you information about that child and just like you said, but it is part of where that child's at and, like you said, any teachers should any good teachers should know that little Johnny had a really bad day today and came in crying and that's why that piece of learning information wasn't didn't represent how he can show that information typically, and I think that's what's missing when we do these big data assessments at times. So I love that that's just again that language reframe?
Nicki Farrell:Yeah, I love it.
Claire Bartlett:So we all most actually all of our assessments are formative, so we don't do any summative assessments. So it's about where is the child at and what do they need next, and it's that idea of valuing process over product as well. So, yes, we would love them to have a beautiful product at the end. But if it looks beautiful, have they had to put in any effort for it to be beautiful? Have they had any growth in the process for it to be beautiful, or were they already capable of whatever it is that they have created?
Nicki Farrell:Oh my goodness, claire, can you plant one on the Sunshine Coast please, because that would be amazing.
Claire Bartlett:We do get asked that a lot.
Nicki Farrell:I bet you do and I bet you're all like we are not starting another school ever again.
Claire Bartlett:Yeah, we, that's exactly our response. As much as we would love to, both I and I will look at each other and go no, thank you. But we are so open to helping other schools, so we do have people reach out and we're so happy to give advice and support where we can.
Nicki Farrell:Oh, that's amazing. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Before I ask you a couple of rapid fire questions.
Claire Bartlett:No, thank you for having me. It's been such a pleasure chatting with you and, as I said, I listening to all of your episodes. It really just is everything that we're learning is about, and I really hope that things change in the government sector so that more schools can have smaller classes and can have more opportunities to do what they all know it needs to be done, but just removing those barriers from stopping schools in doing it.
Nicki Farrell:I think yeah, I think you nailed it. Every teacher I know has the best of intentions for children and same with principles. Yeah, that would be amazing to see happen. All right, here we go. What's your favorite book of all time and why? Or podcast, and what are you or what are you currently reading?
Claire Bartlett:I'm not currently reading anything. I find it really hard to read during the term. I always read in the holiday. But I do listen to a lot of podcasts, which yours is one of my favorites. There's one called the energetic radio that I listen to. I've got a huge list, actually I won't bore you with them, but I love a good podcast.
Nicki Farrell:Oh nice, I'll pop those down. I'll pop that one down at least. Where do you go? What do you do to reset after you've had a tough day?
Claire Bartlett:I normally have a really early night if I've had a tough day. But for me, I'm a really social creature. I love catching up with family and friends, so that's my go to. But we're really lucky into a long list. So many beautiful places to go. So we're close to the beaches, we've got the beautiful bow and river, We've got the yiyang, so somewhere in nature always resets me.
Nicki Farrell:It's magic there. I haven't really explored around there until this year. Actually, I did a big road trip and I just always picked it along as Melbourne and I just had no idea, like you said, that you've got everything there. It's a beautiful part of the world, that's for sure.
Claire Bartlett:We do, and that's one of the beautiful things. Oh, I know it's a rapid fire, sorry.
Nicki Farrell:It's never used. It's never used.
Claire Bartlett:One of the things that we do, too, is our children go out on country. So we'll have two groups go to the beach, we'll have two groups go to the yiyangs and two groups go out to the bow and river on a property, and they get to do that each term, and then in term four, the groups get to choose which experience they would like to end the year in. So that connection to our community and our local area is really important in what we're doing as well.
Nicki Farrell:I just keep picturing having a tough moment and going out and cuddling a cow, that's just.
Claire Bartlett:I mean, that has happened before, or we've got giddy pigs or chooks, or there's a sheep out there and some alpacas. I love it.
Nicki Farrell:All right, this is a bit of a loaded question and, as a principal, feel free to answer it how you wish. If you had to choose just one thing to change about the education system, what would it be? And you kind of touched on this anyway before, but what would it be?
Claire Bartlett:Oh, that is such a tough question because there are so many things I would love to change. The big one for me would be the emphasis on grades and scores. I could give you 20 other things, but I think the pressure that ATA puts on children is it's just not okay. I think there are so many really talented, capable children who are put off by the grades and the marks and the scores. I think universities has shifted. They're not putting such an emphasis on that ATA anymore, which is really amazing.
Claire Bartlett:I just wish secondary schools would catch up with it. I feel like primary schools really understand the value of play and having the joy and the fun, but I think there's something missing in the middle there where that has to change. And a score does not determine that you will be successful in life. I know many people who got amazing scores and have not, for varying different reasons, not done anything with those scores, and I also know people who didn't get great scores at the end of year 12 and have gone on to do the most amazing things. That was a really long answer, but that would be probably one of my top three things that I would change.
Nicki Farrell:Here, here Again. No, it's a rapid fire, but as a high school teacher, it didn't even matter what I said. I'd say none of this matters. None of this matters.
Nicki Farrell:Take the pressure of yourselves but, it's not just coming from teachers, it's coming from leadership, it's coming from universities, it's coming from parents. A lot of it is coming from parents. I think perhaps even parents need a little bit more education about the hundreds of pathways to further education now, because there was a lot of breakdowns and a lot of terrible health issues autoimmune issues that we would see, mental health issues in those last couple of years when gosh, they should be celebrating that youth and that time in their lives and forming relationships in that time of their lives here.
Nicki Farrell:here is what I should have just said.
Claire Bartlett:Absolutely, Even when I get asked the question a lot and it breaks my heart. Well, if the children come to Woodline, well, what about secondary school? I'm like, oh, don't tell me you're going to deprive your child of an experience like Woodline because you feel like they won't be okay at secondary school after it.
Nicki Farrell:Won't they be better prepared?
Claire Bartlett:emotionally for high school, I believe. So, yeah, I truly believe that. I really do believe we're putting them up for success wherever they go? But that question breaks my heart every time that they think that what we're doing isn't preparing children to be successful, and I absolutely believe they're complete opposite.
Nicki Farrell:I again hear here because if you are emotionally prepared to let people know your needs and to see yourself and your health is important first then you'll cope with anything that's thrown at you and make decisions that are based on your best health rather than a silly score. Hopefully, yes. And finally, where can we find out more about Woodline primary? I can imagine you're going to have an onslaught of people moving there and people trying to enroll. Do you have spaces for next year or are you full?
Claire Bartlett:Well, we have some spaces in the older year levels because we're adding that seventh group. Our younger groups are full, but I would still encourage people to submit an expression of interest, to be on our wait list, because you never know what happens. We have had quite a few families move for our school, which feels like a lot of pressure, but the furthest is New Zealand. We had a family come from New Zealand which was amazing. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, where can you find us? That was the question Pretty much. Where on Instagram is our main sharing platform? So we choose not to spend money on marketing. I think it's a waste of money and so we just share through Instagram, but obviously we'd have a website as well.
Nicki Farrell:I 100% understand why parents would move with your kind of community, because you're going to a light-minded community where other parents also you have that and the families are all going to have that level of communication and that expression of need and that vulnerability and that emotional intelligence and that just makes life easier. Even in the difficult times and the uncomfortable situations, when you're equipped with those tools, life is easier. So I get it If you could just bring some more sunshine. Thank you, yeah.
Claire Bartlett:It is a little bit on the chilly side down here. The week is meant to be warming up, so fingers crossed. That's been where the house.
Nicki Farrell:That's amazing. Thank you so much for again just providing something like this. Yes, for your community, but you can't be what you can't see, and the more teachers and guides that hear this and the more schools and principals that hear this again, I hope I can send. I have been sending people your way when they ask about setting up schools or examples of schools already. But it's just the fact that there's models now just means that we're more likely to see more of this and it would change the education system more slowly than you and I probably like, but it's changed and that can only be good for the children in the next generation. So thank you, because I can't imagine how hard it is being the founding principal of a school that's holding so much space. So kudos to you for holding that space and that community, because that's a big, big job with a big heart.
Claire Bartlett:Aw, thank you so much. Have a great day, thank you.